Shooting jacketed bullets after non-jacketed

Again, those of us who fire jacketed after lead have yet to see any adverse effects.
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Except for those who have.

Read post #14 on the linked thread from The Highroad for some firsthand experience with guns damaged by the practice.

"Over the years I've seen this a number of times, and often the owner stated that he'd been "shooting the lead out" for years with no problem.
What happens is, the leading is just that tiny bit more than usual, and the barrel is ruined."​

Allan Jones isn't exactly inexperienced and he also claims to have seen several guns damaged this way.

Beretta is the oldest gun company in the world and warns against the practice in their manuals. Presumably they have gained a bit of firearms experience in the centuries they've been in business.

As mentioned, if the gun doesn't lead badly it's not likely to be an issue. But that doesn't mean it CAN'T be an issue. The practice can cause damage and we have the experience of experts who tell us that it can.

I agree that Tuner knows a thing or two about guns, but put anyone up against Allan Jones and Beretta combined and I think just about anyone's knowledge and experience is going to come out in second place.

WILL it damage a gun? Not always, not even frequently. CAN it damage a gun? Certainly it can and we have the word of at least one well-respected expert and a warning from the oldest gun company in the world to back that up.
 
Atlantis said:
I've been firing jacketed bullets, after having fired lead bullets, for close to 40 years and haven't encountered a problem yet. On the contrary, the practice makes it possible to clean the barrel.
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I have had exactly the same experience. I guess it's conceivable that a really fouled barrel could act similar to a bore obstruction, but I tend to think that this is one of those issues that some gun writer or gun manufacturer has come up with "in an overabundance of caution".
 
agree that Tuner knows a thing or two about guns, but put anyone up against Allan Jones and Beretta combined and I think just about anyone's knowledge and experience is going to come out in second place.
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I disagree.
 
Allan Jones claims to have firsthand knowledge of guns damaged by the practice. It's pretty clear from the qualifications listed below that he knows what he 's talking about so the only other way to dismiss his comments is to claim that he's lying.
  • 20 years with CCI Speer during which he held the positions: Head Ballistician, Technical Specialist, Manager Technical Publications, CCI-Speer Operations, Author and Editor of Speer Reloading Manuals 12-14.
  • 16 years experience as a forensic firearms examiner in the Dallas County (Texas) Crime Lab.
On the thread you linked to there's another person claiming to have firsthand knowlege of guns damaged by the process. A second independent source. He must be lying too.

Beretta warns against it. Guess they don't know what they're talking about.

It's clear that people have done this, some of them for a long time and have gotten away with it. No one is saying that's not possible, on the contrary it's not really surprising. As long as the leading doesn't build up too much it's unlikely to cause a problem. But that's not the point.

The point is that there are experts who, based on firsthand experience, warn against the practice. Not because it WILL cause problems but because it CAN--because it HAS.

I have no problem with people acting contrary to the recommendations and advice of experts. People can do whatever they want. But when people tell others that what they're doing is absolutely safe, that it CAN'T cause a problem that's an entirely different story. Are you going to replace someone's barrel when they bulge it because you told them it couldn't happen? Will you cover the damages that the warranty won't because they disregarded warnings in the manual based on your advice?

TFL is dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership. Suggesting that there's no problem with ignoring the advice of experts or that disregarding the warnings of gun manufacturers can't have negative consequences is not responsible.
 
....... In some way the copper jacket will cause the lead from the non-jacketed bullet to do damage to the barrel.
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Don't know to what degree the lead raises pressure. If it builds up it seems logical that it would.

It may seem logical that one can clean the lead out by following up with copper bullets, but it's just as logical that the copper merely packs the lead down into the pores and makes things worse. While I haven't seen damage first hand, I'm gonna throw in with those who've seen adverse effects.

Doesn't mean I panic after doing a shooting session where I mix copper and lead. I just clean the barrel and make sure the lead is gone.:cool:

If you have lead in the bore and you want to see what happens, just shoot some copper jkt's thru there and take a gander and so how much of the lead is "cleaned out".
 
There are and also experts that dont think its a issue in general too. The main issue seems to me that lead tends to not shoot well after jackets due to some sort of issue with the fouling coatings. Can it be a issue? possably but the odds are pretty low. As per manufacters and expert warning there are experts than say do not shoot hand loads and Beretta also warns against that too. Now if you are stupid enough to just lead the heck out of somthing and then pump a hot jacketed load down it you probably deserve a busted gun. As with most things a bit of common sence goes a long ways.
 
I had a friend back in the '70s that believed running a jacketed round or six would help clean lead out of a bore. I never did take up the practice. Usually shoot lead or jacketed and clean whichever it was when I was done. I will stick to that since it has been working well for me. I'd rather be safe than sorry. :)
 
Our lives these days are filled with warnings...don't do this or that because someone, somewhere had a bad experience doing whatever it was. One has to evaluate the opinions of "experts" along with one's own personal experience in order to form a well-reasoned conclusion. I've no doubt that "experts" have seen situations in which firing a jacketed bullet after shooting lead bullets has caused a barrel to become bulged or even ruptured. BUT, is it a commonplace occurrence? No. Personal experience suggests that it's highly unlikely to happen and probably takes the combination of a seriously fouled barrel and a maximum pressure load to occur. Provided one stays within the load recommendations for a particular cartridge, it's my belief that this practice is no more risky than handloading in general. But then gun makers warn about handloads, too...
 
JayCee,

I wasn't really responding to your post, rather the post that implied it was a total non-issue.
BUT, is it a commonplace occurrence? No. Personal experience suggests...
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I agree. I never claimed otherwise.
...probably takes the combination of a seriously fouled barrel and a maximum pressure load to occur.
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Probably. It's not that it's LIKELY to happen, it's that people should be aware that it CAN happen and that it HAS happened.

You use the example of handloading and it's a good one. A person who has the necessary knowledge, takes reasonable care and adheres to some basic safety rules will almost certainly never have a major issue with his handloads. On the other hand a person who believes that it's impossible to blow up a gun with a handload is setting himself up for disappointment.

Likewise, a person who knows that firing jacketed bullets down a leaded bore can cause issues and takes reasonable care will almost certainly never have have a problem. On the other hand, a person who believes that it's impossible to damage a barrel by firing jacketed rounds down a leaded bore could end up replacing a barrel one day.
 
Well I can see the point and the warning. Self loaders mainly in 9mm with lead can really gunk all to heck right where a totaly differant profile jacket slug can almost not want to seat. With the pressure and thinner barrels you have in self loaders it could get ugly fast. Just basic rules of thumb should avoid that issue though there is always the opps forgot factor. If you look down the bore and double check before you switch my guess is you have better odds of waking up with Marke Post in your bed then screwing up the barrel. I wont go into how many documented messed up barrels vs Markie Post as that would be rude.
 
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