Shooting in my town, 2 dead

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kmw1954

New member
I will try to not make this a drive by posting but this is the second incident in my local this week. 1st there was an idiot throwing some type of explosives from his truck and firing a weapon at the same time. Then Last night there was another incident right here in my town that started as a bar fight. Now two young men are dead.

Long ago I lived right across the street from this bar and used to frequent it regularly. This area also used to be a very quiet, peaceful place but over the past several years it has changed and is the reason I rearmed myself. I have also never felt the need to Carry. now hoping I do not need to reconsider!

Also the city of Tomah is almost 3hrs away from where this occurred.

http://fox6now.com/2017/11/24/1-dead-1-injured-in-shooting-at-kenosha-county-bar/
 
kmw1954 said:
Also the city of Tomah is almost 3hrs away from where this occurred.

http://fox6now.com/2017/11/24/1-dead-1-injured-in-shooting-at-kenosha-county-bar/
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The city of Tomah is known for being "where the "I" divides" and on the main corridor between the south-eastern metro area in the state and the Twin Cities. I know several State Patrol officers that work within a three county area of there and it is known as "the cocaine road" because of the amount of drug mules that use the I-90/94 system for distribution purposes. Most Japanese type vehicles with Asian occupants are scrutinized very closely. That someone trying to get somewhere fast would use the same interstate does not surprise me, nor does a shooting in Kenosha County.
 
I completely get the "I" thing along with Kenosha because of the "I" between Chicago and Milwaukee but "here" in little old Twin Lakes and Lake Geneva this just doesn't happen.

A neighbor I was just talking with believes the two dead are local brothers.

This place." The Beach Bar" was one of my local haunts until I remarried.

I have many times stated tat when it gets to the point tat I feel the need to carry everyday, everywhere then maybe it's time to move. Is it getting to that or am I getting paranoid?
 
kmw1954 said:
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A neighbor I was just talking with believes the two dead are local brothers.

I have many times stated tat when it gets to the point tat I feel the need to carry everyday, everywhere then maybe it's time to move. Is it getting to that or am I getting paranoid?
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Everything I've read says there was a fight beforehand. One wonders if it was two brothers, if they ganged up on the shooter.

Bars at closing time many times are a hazardous place to be. BTDT, also in my youth. Management/employees allowing things to get started and escalate can contribute a lot to how volatile the atmosphere is in the establishment. One reason I seldom go to bars anymore, much less stay there till closing time. Even in areas of low crime where one feels safe, bad things happen, especially when there's alcohol and testosterone involved along with maybe woman and drugs/drug deals. One reason I regularly carry, even in the small town I live in, that has a lower crime rate than even Lake Geneva. That doesn't mean I will be moving anytime soon.
 
That is what I understand also, that there was a fight/argument that started inside then moved to the parking lot. If it were the two brothers that were mentioned to me then they were never known as trouble makers. Sort of like myself and my brother, we would go out, shoot pool, throw darts, video golf.

Isn't it against the law to carry while drinking in a bar? I really don't know as I don't carry.
 
kmw1954 said:
Isn't it against the law to carry while drinking in a bar? I really don't know as I don't carry.
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In Wisconsin you can CWC in a establishment that serves alcohol, but you cannot drink while CWCing. Since the shooting took place out in the parking lot, it could have been a CWC weapon used or a weapon retrieved from the shooters vehicle.

Again, put alcohol and testosterone together and even nice guys can become jerks. Without knowing exactly what happened, we can only take WAGs at what happened.
 
buck cannot disagree. Long ago 2 friends of my little sister were out with a group drinking and a fight started. one struck the other in the nose and killed him. Unintentional but dead just the same. He went to jail.

The local new still hasn't released any real info though some friends of my son that were there confirmed it was the brothers. It is reported that the shooter is only 25yo.. Such as waste and I am glad I quite drinking and hangin out at the bars these days. The one brother our son went to school with.

Wife came home from work today and suggested that she would like to go to the range tomorrow. So it seems this has upset her as well.
 
This happens because our justice system is too lenient on vicious criminals, especially those associated with felonies that originate from personal crimes.

One reason I quit going to bars in general is because dirt-bags like this tend to go there too. One dos not have to do anything intentional for them to get in your face or to take a cheap shot at you. Guys that beat up on women also tend to be those that will hit you in the back of the head with their beer glass or go back to their car for some sort of weapon and then blindside you. While they wanna act tuff they are basically cowards on the inside that are afraid of picking on someone their own size/strength or fight fairly. Sounds like the dirt-bag was well known in the area and the bar, odds are he was known to be short tempered also. My sympathies go out to the family that lost to of their own in one senseless incident.
 
As stated elsewhere I would certainly love to learn the names of the judge and DA that gave him the release so I know how to vote next time they are up for election. I know first hand about his sort of thing as back in 1971 my eldest brother was hit from behind while stopped at a stop sign on his motorcycle. The person that hit him was drunk but also well know to the court. They got off with Failure to Stop at a traffic sign. The State police estimated that they were going in excess of 100mph when the struck him.

I quit drinking after my first heart attack and started on all the heart drugs. Now a days because of the drugs I have 2 or 3 drinks and I'm drunk and ready for a nap so it just isn't worth the effort. Then with the no smoking in the bars it was the deal closer for me.
 
Where would you move to? This crap is everywhere, even in Alaska of all places. The way the world is now, there is no safe place, be armed everywhere you go and you might have a chance.
 
But remember, if you get into a gunfight and win, you will be demonized for surviving if you kill the feller that was trying to kill you.
 
At this point I still don't know where the weapon was or where it came from. Was he carrying it? Was it retrieved from his truck? Were one of the deceased carrying it?

Question, IF it were the survivors weapon and he drew on them would they have had time to react if they too were carrying? Did he catch them off guard and unaware?
 
According to court records, at the time of the shootings Kivi had been released on a signature bond for a felony domestic violence case charged June 5.

In that case, he was charged with battery, disorderly conduct and felony strangulation and suffocation.
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The violent scumbag attacked two ladies. He was given a sweetheart deal by the prosecutor in the first case and a signature bond by the judge in the second case.
 
kmw1954 said:
The shooters information has been released and it isn't pretty. Felony convictions, short sentences and felon in possession of a firearm. Someone please tell me how this can happen!
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It can happen because the anti-gun faction isn't interested in actually enforcing any of the 20,000 (or so) existing gun control laws that are already on the books, they are primarily interested in making it as difficult as possible (until they get to completely illegal) for law-abiding people like most of us to own or carry firearms. o the answer to any incident is not a call for enforcement of existing laws, it's always a call to pass MORE laws that won't be enforced.
 
i seriously doubt that the anti-gun faction had anything to do with the wrongheaded decisions by the prosecutor and judge. The prosecutor will claim his putrid plea with the perp was the "conviction" of a woman beater at election time.

The voters never know how many sweetheart deals the prosecutor pulled off.
 
thallub said:
i seriously doubt that the anti-gun faction had anything to do with the wrongheaded decisions by the prosecutor and judge. The prosecutor will claim his putrid plea with the perp was the "conviction" of a woman beater at election time.
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I certainly agree that in this case the anti-gun faction didn't directly have anything to do with the decisions of the prosecutor and the judge. My point was that these were (as you so aptly phrased it) "wrongheaded decisions." There are plenty of laws already on the books that could have been applied, or applied more stringently, but were not. And now two young men have paid with their lives for those wrongheaded decisions.

In a general sense, then, the anti-gun folks DID have something to do with it. The number "20,000 gun laws" has been around for a number of years. I have no way of knowing how accurate it is, but there are clearly a LOT of laws and regulations already on the books that can be thrown at anyone who shouldn't have a gun. The fact that the anti-gun politicians never make noise about the failure to enforce existing gun laws is a big part of why the general populace is ignorant of the existence of all these laws. Politicians like to portray themselves as supporters of the police and crime fighters, though, so you'll almost never see a politician (especially around election time -- which nowadays is all the time) criticizing the police or a prosecutor for failing to enforce existing gun laws. Instead, whenever there's a shooting that garners headlines, the immediate reaction is a call for MORE anti-gun laws rather than a call for enforcement of the myriad existing laws that could have made a difference.

Las Vegas is an exception, and it simply proves that laws can't provide ironclad assurance of complete safety. From a gun ownership, background check perspective, the Las Vegas shooter was squeaky clean. He bought the guns legally and passed multiple background checks. Unlike the Sulphur Springs, TX, shooting, there were no unreported convictions that should have prevented him from buying the guns. But ... Las Vegas and Sandy Hook are outliers. In pretty much every other mass shooting, more or stricter enforcement of existing laws could have made a difference.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
Instead, whenever there's a shooting that garners headlines, the immediate reaction is a call for MORE anti-gun laws rather than a call for enforcement of the myriad existing laws that could have made a difference.

Las Vegas is an exception, and it simply proves that laws can't provide ironclad assurance of complete safety.
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Demanding more gun laws after a mass shooting is like a 1st Amendment equivalent of demanding more restrictive speech laws after somebody slanders someone else, falsely yells fire in a movie theater, etc. There is no logical end except for a complete annihilation of freedom.
 
Another example of justice. I live on the border between two counties one is very conservative the other very liberal. Recently there were two court cases in the news and both violent crimes. In the conservative county there was an armed robbery with no one hurt. The guy was caught and convicted. In the other county there was an attempted Murder with an injury. The convicted robber received a longer sentence than the convicted Attempted Murder. Go figure.

Though I also see no one has attempted to answer my last question that if the 2 dead were armed would they have had time to react and defend themselves?
 
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