Shooting a Trapdoor

M

mark clausen

New member
I have an 1889, I believe, Trapdoor in excellent condition that I am planning on shooting. I have located new manufactured, not reloaded ammo. An ammo seller at a gunshow mentioned to me about shooting modern .405 ammo in it. The reason this interests me is of course not having the BP mess to deal with. Is any one familiar with this? I'm not going to try this just going on one person's suggestion. This is my first BP cartridge rifle so I thought I would hit you guys up for a little insight on shooting it as well.
Thanks in advance
Mark
 
I shoot a Army Model 1860 whenever I can. Enjoy it, but it is a little work.

I have shot the trap-door and it is a lot of fun. Use straight Ballistol for cleaning and avoid the water.
 
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The best practice, for the rifle's health, would be to load BP for it; but if you don't handload, some (not all) commercial ammo can be shot in a Trapdoor in good condition (as specified by a qualified person/gunsmith, not by it's looks).

.45-70 commercial ammo by the big 3 (Remington, Winchester, Federal) is down-loaded for exactly the rifle you have; but some makers load their .45-70 ammo to higher pressures/performance.

If you stay away from commercial high-performance loads, or powerful handload, your rifle should be OK - again, as long as a qualified gunsmith says it is, after inspecting it..



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Remington makes a version marked as "safe for all rifles", that is loaded to black powder pressures. This factory ammo is specifically manufactured with the older rifles in mind.
Stay away from ammo without this written on the box as it will be loaded to a much higher pressure.
 
What about cowboy loads? That is what I bought for my model 1873 Springfield but I've not shot it yet. Aren't cowboy loads a lower pressure round made for these old firearms?
 
Low pressures and NON-jacketed lead bullets and youi'll be fine !
Want to see it done ? In the classic movie "Stagecoach" ,Indians attacked a train. One fired his trapdoor ,reloaded ,fired again , all at a full gallup ! :D
 
Well thanks guys. I bought this gun last year and couldn't find any ammo in stock online anywhere. Didn't know about shooting low power smokeless loads in it. Got busy with work and it kinda got lost in the safe. I also was not thrilled at cleaning BP mess off it. My BP experience is a repro Hawkins in which I stick the barrel in a bucket of hot soapy water and swab it out. Obviously not an option here. After posting this earlier today I searched around some more and found some low power loads however lots of places have them listed but very few have them in stock. Expensive ones are in stock. Thanks for the info. also thanks for the Ballistol tip. Had not.heard of it. I don't want to bugger this one up it is in very good shape.
 
My understanding of the commercial smokeless loads is that they are loaded (generally) to below 29,200 psi, which is above the rated pressure for the trapdoor (around 19,000 psi) so would highly suggest cowboy loads for your rifle. There are smokeless or replica loads that won't be dirty but will still be safe (and clean) in your gun. Have fun!
 
Don't understand the concern about messiness shooting BP. Shooting BP from single shot cartridge rifles that were designed to shoot BP is the logical way to go and it isn't messy. Sure you clean your rifle after every trip to the range but it isn't any more difficult to clean than if you shot smokeless in it. If you reload cleaning the brass is a little time consuming sometimes and that is probably why some don't shoot BP. The rifle and cartridge were designed around BP and frankly that little cloud of white smoke and the rifle go together.
 
I'm not sure I agree. I shoot a Sharps and my cleaning revolves around cleaning the barrel after shooting with a complete disassembly only as needed. To me this reduces wear on pins and screws and my rifle stays scrupulously clean at all times. To clean after shooting BP one has to tear it down to avoid rust on ANY part that may have encountered BP. No thanks!
 
BPCR shooters seldom find it necessary to completely disassemble their single shots. The usual practice is to clean the barrel and wipe out the accessible action areas on the range before the fouling has time to dry and cake. Reclean at home mostly for peace of mind.
And a good thing, too. Later designs, like the 1885 Highwall and especially its modern Miroku mutant under the Browning and Winchester labels is a lot more complicated to take apart and tedious to put back together.

A friend took the lockplate off his Sharps for the first time after years of use and there was NO fouling or rust inside. The '66 and '73 Winchesters have the lockwork pretty well isolated from fouling, too.
 
Interesting differences in opinion. Let me ask this. When shooting my muzzle loader I need to run a patch through the bore after about every third shot, or the gun gets difficult to load.That is shooting a patched round ball and 73 grains of ffg. Obviously I'm loading this from the other end but is the fouling similar with a cartridge gun. Pressure build up comes to mind. I mean in the heat of battle, in the old days, Would they have stopped every three rounds and swabbed the barrel out? It is an 1888 by the way not 1889.
 
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It depends upon what type powder you're running through the muzzleloader, Holy Black or one of the BP substitutes like Pyrodex, 777, etc.

I shoot only Holy Black in my several traditional frontstuffers, and only need to wipe the bore out at the end of a day's shooting.

Of course, the smaller the bore, the more quickly fouling buildup affects the loading procedure, and the booolit/patch lube used can also make a difference (some lubes don't keep the powder/firing residue soft).



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"Holy Black" I like that. I guess I'm a philistine cause I shoot Pyrodex because it is easier to find. When I first got the muzzle loader I used Holy Black and don't really remember how it compares with pyrodex. Maybe I make too big a production when cleaning it but after 27 yrs the bore and blueing are in great shape. Can't see shooting pyrodex rounds in the Trapdoor.
 
I fire only BP and lead bullets in mine both for authenticity and to prolong the life of that 120 plus year old action and barrel. I have found windshield washer fluid a Q&E-and cheap-way to clean. Fill the barrel about 2/3 full, a cork in the muzzle, several good shakes, let it soak 5-10 minutes, then wipe.
 
Using a patched round ball, you won't have problems loading if you use a wet patch as it will clean some of the fouling as you seat the next shot. Lots of formulas out there and lots of them will work....I personally like a mix of Murphy's oil soap and Windex. I use it to lube patches via a small spray bottle, and as a cleaner instead of water. It evaporates fast and will dissolve the powder fouling fast.
I would expect some other opinions on this matter, but I have been using this for many years and it works well for me. I use the same mix for cleaning my cartridge BP guns as well, and don't use water at all (I'm sure the Windex has some water in it though).
 
Trapdoor

Come on people, doesn't anyone actually read what the OP wrote???


"An ammo seller at a gunshow mentioned to me about shooting modern .405 ammo in it."


OP either made a typo or his "dealer" is an idiot!!!

T.
 
T. Thanks for noticing and for your PM. I mean that but... First he is not "my dealer" he is an ammo seller I talked to at a gun shoe recently. I was looking for black powder 45-70 loads and he was not too busy to talk to me and he was the first person to suggest the possibility of shooting low power smokeless loads in my gun. Also in my OP I said that I wasn't going to try it one one persons suggestion. That is why I am asking here. Researching and gaining learning. I am not rushing into anything. It is too nice a gun to blow up (and my face is too pretty:D) It did not occur to me to shoot smokeless loads in this until I talked with this fellow. This is my second antique cartridge gun purchase, but I was talked out of shooting the first, because of it's condition so I sold it. This is a really nice gun also and I don't want to mess up future resale value but really want to shoot it. I am just feeling my way through this experience. Not going to take anything too fast here. It would be cool to kill a deer with it this fall if for no other reason to see my nephew's eyes roll, mr black rifle, when I bring that thing out. Thanks for your concern, it is not unfounded.
 
In that case it might be more to your liking to run black powder loads through the gun, just for authenticity.

After reading this I just might give a few black powder loads a try in my Sharps. Might. Might. Something to think about.
 
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