Shoot through the door?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ah, yes, Hardball. Even if it's your mommy coming in to spank you, your wife quite irate about your pregnant girlfriend, or your pregnant sweetie who's not real pleased about the alleged vasectomy.

Where is it written that the kicker is a bad GUY?

:D, Art
 
what have to dail 911! I don't have a phone in my bedroom,,and what if after the asshle gets through the door I don't care if he is 110 pounds and un armed,,I do not have to put my life in potential danger no matter how small the chance is that they might get a chance to possibly kill me,,,I feared for my life,,if they are drunk tough feces,,don't get drunk,,do I have to take the chance that this skell might get a chance at getting my firearm and using it on me? NOT,,I know this to be fact,,I lived it in NY,,should I have grappled with this scumbag and take the chance that his high arse would get my firearm? FFUk no! this is total BS and don't make excuses for a holes bad judgement etc.....noone tells them to act other than responsibly! No more excuses for anyone trying to harm me or you,,,don't murder just do what you gotta do,,no ones life is worth taking a chance,,and ffuk the a holes out there that think that they can act like a hole,,,more of them wether civialians or LEO's should be held reponsible one way or the other,,,and this from a retired LEO...p.s. god forbid my ass had gotten shot while on the job,,well you take the good with the bad,,,it is part of the job,,if I wanted a safe job I would have been a librarian,,,Semper Fi
 
Art-

"good people are not "kicking down my bedroom door in the middle of the night." I am a peaceful and loveable person unless provoked, but some one who is "kicking down my bedroom door in the middle of the nigh ."is being Very provoking.:D
 
Joe, I don't think anybody is suggesting that one wait until the Bad Guy is inside and close enough for grappling.

I have no objection whatsoever to the use of deadly force; I'm merely saying that shooting through the door at what is basically just a loud noise can get you some time in the slammer. It's a matter of circumstance.

Another Devil's Advocate point: What if the kicker has a hostage in front of him as a shield as he's doing this kicking? Over and over, haven't we all heard, "Identify your target"?

All I've suggested in any of my posts is that thinking before doing is a Good Thing. I'm not at all suggesting doing nothing...

:), Art
 
If I may make a suggestion....

The three questions to ask before using deadly force (ie. shooting the prick):

Is the aggressor equipped to use deadly force?
In the case of someone trying to kick down your bedroom door - you don't know! So don't shoot.

Is the aggressor in a position to use deadly force?
If he or she is behind your bedroom door, probably not. So don't shoot.

Is the aggressor demonstrating intent to use deadly force?
He or she is acting violently. If you feel that this is enough indication of his or her intent to use deadly force, I'll leave the decision up to the reader.

Those three questions are the bare minimum. If all three of the above questions had been 'yes', then I would shoot the idiot. Otherwise, no, since I wouldn't like to be locked up in a cubicle with a wretched murderer for company.

My 2 cents.... :)
 
Y'know, as I was getting in bed last night, this thread came to mind. Statements about mothers, grandmothers, and friends attempting to extricate us from potential danger came to mind, and as they did, the utter absurdity of such comments struck me, and I laughed, because any friend or relative of mine will most assuredly be loudly identifying themselves if placed in a position to need to break into my occupied bedroom. Just food for thought.
 
Gentlemen,

For what it's worth I add my two cents.
I'm currently building a house, and I never REALLY understood the entire building process before.
Here in North-Central Florida the homes are well insallated, and wood frame.
I always though their would be some brick and cinder involved (travel 100 miles South and almost all the new homes being built are cinder), this being said I look around my house and see that even if I were to shot a .38 from outside into the house, it would probably penetrate at least into the house.
Didn't exactly give me a "warm, fuzzy".
However when the house was still in the planning stage, along with the metal exterior doors I had them put me down for two solid-core doors: Master Bedroom and one Guest Bedroom.
There is a deadbolt on the MBR door which can only been seen from the inside.
To cut to the chase, if I heard MY bedroom door being bashed down, I'd hand the cellphone to my wife, grab my pistol and wait.
I've been through this particular drill before, the "intruders" will probably get a terse "I'm armed, the police are on the way..."
I know for a FACT that I would hold fire till I identified the target, granted that may give the intruder the chance to fire on me, or rush through the door with the other mall-ninja's.
The fact is there is NO pat answer, we've read the articles and know the drills. When you pull that trigger you are opening a Pandora's box, you won't know what happens until a minute afterwards.
1. You've either held off from shooting a drunk, and/or disorderly who is now very shaken.
2. You have a goblin at gunpoint.
3. You are now in a Mexican-Standoff with LEO's, or what LOOKS like LEO's.
Tough question, no pat answers.
Hate to say this but regardless of what the laws say, I don't trust my life, my wife's or anyone elses to them. I could be 100% in the right and still be fried in court or "light up" the bedroom and be completely exonerated.:eek:
The key is to have a "layered" defense.
1. Outdoor lights.
2. Loyal pet(s).
3. Security Alarm.
4. Solid interior/exterior doors and windows.
5. Solid plan of action (much like a fire-drill).

Ehhh,

Sorry I took so long...

Jon
 
CrociJA, it sounds like you've put some thought into the deal, rather than "thinking in slogans" or going heavy into an ego-trip...

We live in a world where juries give huge sums of money to people as a reward for being stupid. We live in a world where DAs don't believe in one's right of self-defense, and will happily deliver an "uncaring, calloused murderer" to the tender mercies of the judgements of these same sorts of jurors.

Not only do I want the odds on my side in the event of the need for deadly force in self-defense, I want the odds on my side when the Grand Jury meets to decide on indictments.

:), Art
 
I remember, some months ago, my dog started making some noise between 0300 and 0400. I quietly "shushed" her, and went back to sleep. She promptly woke me back up, a little more loudly, this time. I told her to be quiet. ZZZ...
Ruff!
Quiet, dammit!...and then, I heard the knocking...
I wondered why the police would be at MY door, as I couldn't think of anyone else who would be knocking on my door in the wee hours (none of my family is in GA). I apologized to my dog, and picked up my P-11 JUST IN CASE.

Looking through the peephole, I saw no-one, but did see a black bag. I stepped back from the door (far enough that it couldn't hit me, even if forced), and opened the door with my right hand, chain on, while keeping my P-11 in my left, pointed at the floor. Before I could ask who it was, I heard a

John! It's me!, and Spartacuses' head popped into view.

Sure, people can show up unexpectedly. I will NEVER shoot through at someone who is just knocking, whether inner or outer door. On the other hand, someone who has just put a limb through my bedroom door has demonstrated their ability to hurt me gravely, and I am, indeed, in fear for my life, and I have nowhere to run.
 
Last edited:
How long does it take to bust a solid core door, the solid core usually isn't anything very strong unless you special order it, with nothing but your empty hands or feet? My boss at one of my jobs manages a lot of rental units. He has opened many dead bolted doors by basically "bumping them," he isn't very strong he weighs around 220 though. Have worked with "ex" goblins that weighted about the same that were much stronger...one in particular I am sure could punch thru any non metal door likely to be in a house.

Art: Many leases forbid any changes to house/apt, and your usually prohibited from changing the locks. Not saying you can't but that your breaking the law that way also, and that your doing so in a way that can end up with landlord or LEO's busting in with the law on their side. From a personal security standpoint renting sucks.

SamH: You said "Is the aggressor equipped to use deadly force? In the case of someone trying to kick down your bedroom door - you don't know! So don't shoot. Is the aggressor in a position to use deadly force? If he or she is behind your bedroom door, probably not. So don't shoot. Is the aggressor demonstrating intent to use deadly force? He or she is acting violently. If you feel that this is enough indication of his or her intent to use deadly force, I'll leave the decision up to the reader. "

I would say if they can break the door down they have demonstrated that they could seriously hurt or kill me.

Are they in a position to use deadly force? Depends how you look at it, my arguement would be similar to the one used against knife armed person at 7 yards [ie Tueller drill]. Except they are closer than in the Tueller drill and I was sound asleep but a moment ago, talk about being behind in the OODA loop.

I would feel whoever is breaking down a bedroom door has if not deadly intent the intent to do sever bodily harm to the people inside.
***

Does your opinion of this situation change if the person in the bedrooom is female? Or disabled/elderly?
 
Personally, I'd be scrambling to get behind bullet-proof cover or, at least, concealment. Then I'd like to cover the door and check the windows in my peripheral vision. Getting ear muffs on would help, too -- can still hear through them but won't mess up hearing as badly.

Source of the noise could be a cat that got in through a window, or wind or new neighbor's stereo but unID'd visitors would be kept at gunpoint.

I wouldn't light up through the door but if the visitors are hostile, then ventilating the place through the walls is OK as they can do the same to you. Doesn't work as well if you have kids' bedroom down the hall from you.
 
Do you guys see something fundamentaly wrong here? It is real sad when we in America are more in fear of the legal system and cops, than we are of the miscreaent kicking in the door to what has heretofore been considered one's sanctum sanctorum. Face it, when the door is being kicked in at 2am, you don't have a lot of time to consider all the crap that has been posted here about 'what if this' or 'what if that'. You would have about three seconds, groggy, disoriented, to make a decision. For me, it is going to be a lot of #3 buckshot from the Mossberg sitting by the bed. Some one can sort it out later. I still believe that being judged by 12 better than being carried by 6.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top