shoot placement, heart, head, lungs???

Gotta agree with Python on this one. Paintball puts you in that adrenaline dump mode when you hear that whistle and you have EVERYONE scrambling for cover. Then when you are behind a barrier and hear paint hitting the barrier in rapid bursts...

Shooting at a moving target is not easy... But on the flipside, the distances involved in paintball normally means that your moving target is far enough away that if you were in an actual gun fight, you should be getting farther away from the BG.
 
I heard someone say once that if you have time to debate what kind of shot you're going to take then you have time to get the hell out of that situation in the first place.
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...in a body bag. If your brain functions so slowly that in the time it takes you to make up your mind about where to place a shot that your body could physically remove you from that situation, then you have some significant mental issues. I believe the condition, as comically called in the tv show "Night Court" referred to it was Tortoise nervosis (slow nerves).

Another way of considering the point is that if your shoot training is such that you can only shoot at a singular location while under stress, then your training has failed you, especially if in a crisis that location isn't available for you to shoot. Why? Because according to the theory quoted above, in the time it takes you to debate where you shot will be placed after you have slowly realized the place you trained for is no longer available, then you would have had time to remove yourself from the situation, right? ...or the bad guy killed you because of your inability to perform.
 
Mozambique Drill

Hitting the pelvis is hard and takes time. Try it. Sill the fastest:

Mozambique Drill
( see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill )

The Mozambique Drill was added to the modern technique of gunfighting by Jeff Cooper based on the experience of one of his students, Mike Rouseau, while on duty in Mozambique. Rouseau was later killed in action in the Rhodesian War.

The Mozambique Drill considers the deficiency of the pistol round in stopping an adversary. Statistics show that reactions in gunfights are extremely irregular -- one must be prepared for the worst. Many times it is the case that after absorbing the trauma of the first shots, the enemy will disregard further ballistic insult. It has been pointed out that simply "more shots" are not the answer. The Mozambique Drill instructs the shooter to place a double-tap in the center of mass, followed by a carefully aimed headshot.

Contrary to popular belief, the immediate aim of defensive shooting is to incapacitate a target so as to render that person unable to attack. Unlike what is commonly seen on television and in movies, gunshot wounds rarely kill instantly. The incapacitation caused by gunshots is the result of neurocirculatory shock. The trauma resulting from impact and wound channel after two shots to a target's center of mass will produce a reflexive nervous system collapse in about 96% of cases. In the other 4%, either an adrenaline rush or the effect of stimulant drugs will override this reflex, and further shots will not produce this instantly-incapacitating shock. Because of this, the third shot should be aimed to destroy the brain, ensuring that the target's nervous system will shut down and leave the target unable to attack. This third shot is most effective when placed between a target's eyes as a higher shot is more likely to deflect off of hard bone and a lower shot is unlikely to produce the nervous system damage required to instantly stop an attacker.

Also known as the 'failure to stop drill' or '2+1 drill'. As part of the U.S. National Guard Combat Pistol and other military combat pistol competitions, the Mozambique Drill is called Body Armor Defeat, and is frequently a discriminator between the average shooter and the gifted shooter, especially when it is timed.
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While center of mass provides the "largest" target and is scored the highest in the B27 targets, think about what actually lies beneath the 10 ring.

My best guess would place the 10 ring just below the sternum. That means that there is a good chance of hitting the diaphragm, the stomach, and the liver. While I'm sure it would still hurt like hell and cause potentially fatal wounds, none of those shots would be an instant stop unless the bullet also went through the spinal chord.

There have been multiple threads that call for shooting the upper part of the torso, meaning from the chest up. This gives you a much better chance of hitting the heart, lungs, and major arteries and veins going to the heart. There is always the chance of hitting the spinal chord as well. An upper chest wound has a much greater chance of stopping a fight since the circulatory and repiratory organs are there.

Of course you take the shot you are presented with, but if I had to trade shots with someone, I would sure as heck want mine to count more than theirs.
 
Double Naught:
You and I are basically on the same page. What I meant was that if you have to sit there and wonder which shot to take because the guy is hiding (i.e. NOT advancing or threatening) then your situation may have changed slightly with respect to protection under your State use-of-force statutes.
I did not mean to imply that your body can move faster than your brain, and the "getting out of there" part meant that if you have time to debate shot placement with yourself in a situation then there's a high probability that you also had an opportunity to avoid the situation in the first place - BEFORE the fight started. Sorry for the confusion.

Stephen:
There is only one way to guarantee an "instant stop" - so for the majority of people it's going to be an unattainable (at least by intention) shot under stress with a defensive weapon. Rather than try to explain why the B27 works fairly well for target training, I'll ask you to try an exercise:

Engage a B27 target from 7 yards under physical stress, rapid fire. Get your heart rate up, sweat, try to recreate the adrenaline dump if you can. I say rapid fire because that's how you're going to pull the trigger when your life is in danger....no slow, easy shots. Aim for the X - when you're done, I highly doubt you will have placed many shots in the 10-ring...but you'll cover enough of the rest of the silhouette to stop/neutralize the threat.

I can't sit here and debate the merits of placing COM at the center of the chest or at the sternum - to me that's a pointless debate. However, I've learned from experience that I'm less likely to nail a target dead on under stress and that I'm more likely to plant rounds within 6-10 inches all around where I thought I was aiming.
That's the reason I say the B27 has its advantages.

I'm not LE, but I do speak from years of personal experience. Others with just as much experience will have different thoughts/ideas/opinions - so in the end all opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them. ;)
 
Actually, unless you are in a "live fire" situation for real, you will never know how you will react, and how your accuracy will be. There are some cool hands out there to be sure, and a lot more that are not. Its like getting surgery, it may cure you or it may kill you, but its the choice of last resort, as gunplay should be. :cool:
 
You are correct - but what many of us who have been there are trying to teach is that there ARE certain things that you can be sure of in a "live-fire" situation.

  1. Your fine motor skills are severely impacted
  2. Your ability to make precision shots is adversely affected
  3. You are going to look at the threat, not your gun
  4. You may/may not see your sights
  5. Visually, your world will reduce to a tiny point
  6. Your body will want to protect itself
  7. If you are not well-trained, your survival instinct is going to take over
  8. You're not going to remember a LOT of things right away.

These hard-earned lessons form the foundation of my training philosophy, as they do for anyone who's "been there, done that". If it works for you, cool.. If not, then that's the beauty of America...we can ignore things we don't like.
 
pickpocket,

Fortunately, I have never been in a shoot out situation so the following is based on my opinion and conversations with avid shooters.

While I agree that shootout is a very stressful situation, you will be shocked how much proper and frequent training will affect your ability when the poop hits the fan. When you develop muscle memory from repetitive actions, those become the default when your instincts take over. While your marksmanship may not be as good as your controlled environment, calm, slow fire you should still be able to hit your target.

With frequent practice, your brain should say, "hey, I know this scenario" and you will act accordingly. Now people who don't practice very often will usually go into panic mode and their shooting abilities will out the window.

I had one situation where I had to draw my weapon. I used to keep my Glock 26 in the center console of my car and I practiced drawing it on a somewhat regular basis. I had just pulled out of a drive thru and I stopped to let a couple of guys walk past to get into the restaurant. One of these guys ran up to my window which still happened to be down. Instinctively, my right hand reached down and flipped the center console open. I drew my gun and had it at the low ready position (down by the steering wheel to prevent a gun grab) in less than 2 seconds. The guy mumbled something about being drunk and not trying to cause any problems and walked off. There were 3 other people in the car with me and they were completely freaked out about how I drew the gun so quickly (they estimate it took no more than a second and a half so it isn't the whole time slowing down phenomenon.) Basically, I had practiced the drill and when the poop hit the fan, my training took over.

Is there a point to my long winded post? Yes. If I practice shooting for the upper chest as my default, that is where I will shoot when the poop hits the fan. I can almost guarantee that those shots will be much more effective than gut shots. Good practice makes perfect. Lousy practice makes lousy shots.
 
pickpocket,

One other thing to consider is IPSC or PPC shooting. I am planning to get into it after a friend of mine introduced me to it. While I was not in danger of getting shot, I was forced to shoot and move and shoot on the move under time pressure. My pulse rate was up and I was not shooting from a stationary position. I actually did fairly well and even did better than a few guys who had been out there before. That is because I have been shooting for a long time and have a reasonable amount of practice and muscle memory to improve my marksmanship. With sufficient practice, the gun becomes an extension of your hand and you can actually call your shots. When the poop hits the fan, it becomes... Hey, this is like that IPSC scenario I shot the other day. I'll draw and move to cover and engage the target while I am moving. I can guarantee your average bad guy will be no match for a regular competition shooter.
 
I have done both paint ball and competition and I get the urge to take a crap from both. Nerves to say the least. The edge does go to paint ball because of the pain factor I guess.

As for training aids for hitting different areas try colored, numbered, or shaped multi targets. These are targets that have multiple square, circle, triangle, rectangle etc. they are colored and/or numbered. The goal is to have a friend call red triangle and you engage the red triangle etc. This will force you to choose a particular target at random among multiple choices.

Also try shooting balloons filled with helium outdoors. The trick is to move sideways while engaging. If the wind is up a bit they offer erratic movement that is not predictable.
 
three gun,

The problem with trying to hit helium baloons is that they all go upwards. Unless you hit them right when they are released, you will be sending hot lead skywards. Who knows where these rounds are going to land and who could they potentially kill? If you ask me, I would say that is a clear violation of knowing your target and what lies beyond. Besides, if you miss your target, you are endangering wildlife such as sea turtles that may have the balloons lodge intheir throats (I've been told they look like jelly fish when they float on top of the water). One solution is to tie a helium filled balloon to a remote control car and have someone drive it down range. Just be sure not to hit the car or else your kid will be really pissed off at you! :D
 
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One solution is to tie a helium filled balloon to a remote control car and have someone drive it down range. Just be sure not to hit the car or else your kid will be really pissed off at your!
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This works really well and it's loads of fun. I bought a cheapie RC car, drilled a hole down through it and placed an old car antenna in the hole. An alligator clip is attached to the top of the antenna to hold the balloon. Just make sure to buy a car with wide track wheels as they have a tendency to tip over on turns.
 
Stephen, The balloons are held by string tie to your backstop. Sorry for not being more thorough the first time.

Capt. I always said I'm gonna use one of the kids (old unwanted) RC cars but to this date have never tried it. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Our firearms instructor taught us to shoot for the center of the largest target presented to us. I teach my guys the same.
 
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