Carry_24/7
New member
Double naught; you, obviously did not read where I admitted I jumped to conclusions. Read the whole thread, calm down....stay current
shoot or retreat
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I don't see a mea culpa anywhere in the thread, I think he's well up to date
Pee ess since I'm here, and strictly academically, Florida CCW isn't "invalid" in places licensed to serve alcohol, only in that portion of such a licensed place primarily devoted to consuming alcohol. The parking lot, generally speaking, would not necessarily be such a place.
Ryan
Pee ess since I'm here, and strictly academically, Florida CCW isn't "invalid" in places licensed to serve alcohol, only in that portion of such a licensed place primarily devoted to consuming alcohol. The parking lot, generally speaking, would not necessarily be such a place.
Ryan
Carry_24/7
New member
Raisitup; What Hothog said was true, Mea culpa, I jumped to conclusions, I was wrong, I assumed.....
We good?
We good?
So, the club owner's employees called, and said, "Boss, we have a problem," and some people here think it was unreasonable for the owner to go to the club and check on the welfare of his employees and the safety of his business?
Are you kidding? Most of us would call that proper leadership.
And who says the police were not called?
So, then, the club owner arrives at his business, and the guy who caused his employees to call the owner is still outside, acting like a wild man, and some people here think it was unreasonable for the owner to have his gun ready as he exited his vehicle? Seriously?
And then, the wacko charges, shooting the first shots from a gun he either had on his person, or else retrieved from his vehicle (and came back to the club with - for what purpose?), so the owner returns fire, and some people ask whether this was lawful? Or better yet, ethical?
Again, are you kidding?
Are you kidding? Most of us would call that proper leadership.
And who says the police were not called?
So, then, the club owner arrives at his business, and the guy who caused his employees to call the owner is still outside, acting like a wild man, and some people here think it was unreasonable for the owner to have his gun ready as he exited his vehicle? Seriously?
And then, the wacko charges, shooting the first shots from a gun he either had on his person, or else retrieved from his vehicle (and came back to the club with - for what purpose?), so the owner returns fire, and some people ask whether this was lawful? Or better yet, ethical?
Again, are you kidding?
Thanks for the excerpt, Brent.
younggunz4life, I think you and some others really need to re-check the concept of "brandishing."
Making a weapon ready when somebody else has already attacked people, or obviously prepared to attack people, is not "brandishing" in any jurisdiction of which I am aware. People on TFL throw "brandishing" around in all sorts of ways, that actually don't apply.
So, the guy has stabbed some people, and folks here think the owner was unreasonable in having gun in hand? Really?
Then, it also turns out the guy has a gun.
I wonder if the OP actually read the article about the incident before he posted....
younggunz4life, I think you and some others really need to re-check the concept of "brandishing."
Making a weapon ready when somebody else has already attacked people, or obviously prepared to attack people, is not "brandishing" in any jurisdiction of which I am aware. People on TFL throw "brandishing" around in all sorts of ways, that actually don't apply.
So, the guy has stabbed some people, and folks here think the owner was unreasonable in having gun in hand? Really?
Then, it also turns out the guy has a gun.
I wonder if the OP actually read the article about the incident before he posted....
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sounds legal in just about every state to mea culpa.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20110418_11_0_MEDICI832088
http://www.ktul.com/story/14463075/lawton-man-dead-after-shooting-in-bar?clienttype=printable
youngunz4life
New member
mleake, hogdog
haven't read all the posts since mine but I did read mleakes to me so far:
my response was not to any actual story or other posts: my reply was to the original post quoted above. I was under the impression when I read it that man got out of his car with a gun...and thats when my wheels started turning to the possible "personality" that got out of the car with gun in hand(one example of many: loud, verbal communication as clubowner gets out of vehicle with gun). I know I mentioned in my hurried post when I was running late that there wasn't enough info for me & it would've been nice to observe that one from afar. anyways, maybe brandishing was incorrect wording, but brandishing comes in many forms. that being said, it does seem @ this point like the club owner was more of the hero type than thug type. all the best
haven't read all the posts since mine but I did read mleakes to me so far:
my response was not to any actual story or other posts: my reply was to the original post quoted above. I was under the impression when I read it that man got out of his car with a gun...and thats when my wheels started turning to the possible "personality" that got out of the car with gun in hand(one example of many: loud, verbal communication as clubowner gets out of vehicle with gun). I know I mentioned in my hurried post when I was running late that there wasn't enough info for me & it would've been nice to observe that one from afar. anyways, maybe brandishing was incorrect wording, but brandishing comes in many forms. that being said, it does seem @ this point like the club owner was more of the hero type than thug type. all the best
youngunz4life
New member
caught up on posts
hogdogs: I do not feel I used the term brandishing inaccurately. It is possible you misinterpreted my post.
mleake: No, I didn't know of the stabbings and such either. My viewpoint was from a different angle, but its good the thread has been pulled more compactly together. all the best. GO BRUINS!
hogdogs: I do not feel I used the term brandishing inaccurately. It is possible you misinterpreted my post.
mleake: No, I didn't know of the stabbings and such either. My viewpoint was from a different angle, but its good the thread has been pulled more compactly together. all the best. GO BRUINS!
younggunz4life, the drunk had already stabbed patrons; the club owner had been told the drunk was assaulting people with a deadly weapon. When he arrived, and the guy was still there, exiting his vehicle with weapon drawn was prudent, given the information the owner had at the time.
A prudent draw, when deadly force has already been employed, is NOT brandishing, so you did use the term inaccurately IMO.
"Brandishing" implies intent to create a disturbance or unlawfully threaten people. In this case, the drunk had employed deadly force, and was armed and aggressive. Display of a weapon in order to ward him off would not qualify as brandishing. Drawing the weapon, to be prepared against an attacker who has already displayed willingness to employ deadly force, is also not brandishing.
A prudent draw, when deadly force has already been employed, is NOT brandishing, so you did use the term inaccurately IMO.
"Brandishing" implies intent to create a disturbance or unlawfully threaten people. In this case, the drunk had employed deadly force, and was armed and aggressive. Display of a weapon in order to ward him off would not qualify as brandishing. Drawing the weapon, to be prepared against an attacker who has already displayed willingness to employ deadly force, is also not brandishing.
youngunz4life
New member
mleake, I guess its my turn to go under your microscope? lol. no, all kidding aside- you have the right to your opinion. all I knew when I read the thread starter(or interpreted the thread starter) was that a man got out of his car with a gun in his hand(brandishing a gun) because a man was drunk and disorderly outside his business while cops were on the way. thats why I asked: "what's the point of the weapon being brandished?" in my 1st post.
of course, it is obvious there were other, more serious mitigating factors present during this incident(as you have pointed out)
of course, it is obvious there were other, more serious mitigating factors present during this incident(as you have pointed out)
youngunz4life
New member
Let me try this one more time
OK, you were right // mleake said:
I didn't know that all that other stuff had happened & that the clubowner knew this. For all I knew with the info I had been presented, the clubowner could have been about to confront a drunk college kid outside his business with his personal weapon. No, it wasn't unlawful. I had thought maybe it was possible upon my first read of the post. Again, maybe brandishing was the wrong word choice. Thanx for the exercise this evening; I actually enjoyed it!
I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE IT WAS A REAL INCIDENT. I THOUGHT THE OP WAS JUST THROWING OUT A 'STAND YOUR GROUND' SCENARIO.
FOR ALL I KNEW SOME DUDE WAS KICKED OUT OF AN ESTABLISHMENT FOR BEING TOO DRUNK. WHEN THE OWNER SHOWED UP WITH A GUN FOR WHATEVER REASON, SAID INDIVIDUAL DECIDED TO COME BACK ACROSS THE STREET.
good to know I can explain things to you // again, obviously there were more serious factors going on that I didn't realize originally in this real life, true event.
ALL THE BEST, GUNZ
OK, you were right // mleake said:
I didn't know that all that other stuff had happened & that the clubowner knew this. For all I knew with the info I had been presented, the clubowner could have been about to confront a drunk college kid outside his business with his personal weapon. No, it wasn't unlawful. I had thought maybe it was possible upon my first read of the post. Again, maybe brandishing was the wrong word choice. Thanx for the exercise this evening; I actually enjoyed it!
I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE IT WAS A REAL INCIDENT. I THOUGHT THE OP WAS JUST THROWING OUT A 'STAND YOUR GROUND' SCENARIO.
FOR ALL I KNEW SOME DUDE WAS KICKED OUT OF AN ESTABLISHMENT FOR BEING TOO DRUNK. WHEN THE OWNER SHOWED UP WITH A GUN FOR WHATEVER REASON, SAID INDIVIDUAL DECIDED TO COME BACK ACROSS THE STREET.
good to know I can explain things to you // again, obviously there were more serious factors going on that I didn't realize originally in this real life, true event.
ALL THE BEST, GUNZ