Shoot-No Shoot scenario: In his sights...

S

simonov jr

New member
Another driver gestures angrily at you and drives aggresively toward you. Next thing you know, he's next to you steering with his left and pointing his handgun right at your face with his extended right hand. His passenger window is up, as is yours, and you have a handgun with you. Are you justified in SHOOTING him? I say this situation meets the threshhold of " if a reasonable person would be in fear of death or grave bodily injury". What does the law do to you if you "shoot first" in this case, etc?
 
My first thought is brake and drop in behind him. Gonna be hard put to draw and ding him while he has the drop on you and high odds o shootin things you shouldn't oughtta.

------------------
Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Traffic permitting, I apply full brakes and pull out of traffic. If the other driver continues, I try to glimpse license plate and memorize at least vehicle details and a driver description. I am then on the phone with the guys in blue.

If the other driver stops likewise and backs his car up, or exits his vehicle, I extradite myself with my vehicle in the opposite direction. If I can't run because I am stuck in traffic, and the other guy still moves in my direction with a weapon out, he will have a brief discourse with Mr. Glock.

In any case, if anybody points a gun at me, I feel perfectly justified in stopping the threat without asking his intentions first, or inquire whether his weapon is loaded. If it is pointed at me, and the BG is within handgun range, he better be quick on the trigger, because I will draw and engage the threat.
 
I actually had something similar happen, Once while leaving work I had a car with totally blacked out windows pull up beside me and keep pace with me on the interstate, when i slowed down they slowed down, when I sped up they sped up, I was considering the next option when the cars passenger side window rolls down and its a co-worker who lives near me and had a new car........I didnt like the feeling one bit, and he thought it was a big joke...fubsy.
 
If somebody is pointing a gun at you, then my understanding is that you would be justified in shooting that person because they are threatening you. This is really based on the three vowel concept (O,A,I). The have the opportunity (in the car next to you), the ability (the gun), and the intent (it is pointed at you). Thus, you have every right to defend yourself. That being said, exploring other options may save your life just as well and keep you out of substantial legal troubles. Being right is one thing. Justifying you are right can be another matter.
 
I agree with lendringser. Try your best to avoid having to use your weapon, but if he gets out and comes for you, shoot. About the closest I've been to that was when a bus backfired next to me on the road. It sounded just like a .45 auto. So as I was looking around I put a grip on my pistol with one hand, drove with the other. Saw no threat, and unclenched my butt cheeks.
 
I agree with disengaging the car.

It would be difficult to counter this courtroom argument:

"You had time to produce a weapon, aim at the driver adjacent to you, and fire with deference to bystanders, all maintaining control of your vehicle? It seems that if you had that much time than you had other options. Such as disengaging by hard breaking while turning away. And if you had time to disengage, then lethal force was not justified."
 
Plus if you take the BG out while at speeds, someone else is moslt likely going to be gravely injured. I believe you are completely and leagally responsible for all of the manslaughter that ensues from the BG's out of control vehical. Pull out of traffic exit the car and retreat to cover (with gun in hand).

[This message has been edited by hube1236 (edited May 19, 2000).]
 
Hey now, what's all this? Guys, we have an IMAGE to maintain!

I'd fill that sumb*****es car fulla holes with my .45, then I'd drag him out and fill HIM fulla holes!

(note to the humor-impaired: you don't think I'm serious, do you?)
 
I would agree that shooting him when he's next to you could cause a serious accident, one that may include you. Better to brake, fall back and try to get away, and shoot if he comes at you.

A few years back a had a somewhat similar situation. On the interstate, a guy was trying to ram my car from the side, then the back, then up front and braking. Why, I have no idea. I maneuvered myself so that he was in front of me and, as soon as it was too late for him to exit, I cut across two lanes to the exit, got back on the interstate going the opposite direction and took the long way home.

Dick
 
Don't look to be quick on the trigger.
In this hypothetical, you were threatened
with deadly force.

But, if you shoot him:

He survives and says it was a he said/
she said and you shot him first. He had his gun out because you were shooting at him.
Try to disprove that.

Or:

You cause a crash and others are killed. Since he fire no shots, aren't you the casual agent of the crash?

I have been lurking here awhile and now feel confident to comment. It is better to avoid
than use the gun if at all possible.
In this case, you can get out of the line of fire pretty easily. Are you really going to drive side by side to have a gun fight?
Kind of a scenario posted by someone with little experience, n'est pas?

Too many posters on gun lists like to see if you can use the gun.
 
I thought of this scenario a week or so ago because of a strange experience getting on the highway. I tend to drive fairly fast, and as I was accelerating down the access road I passed some cars at a fairly high rate of speed (three lane access road, I wasn't even close to them). However, one of the cars apparently didn't like that (I guess), so he got right behind me as I was getting on the ramp into the highway, flashing his brights at me (it was at night). There was a truck ahead of me, and when the truck pulled out of the merge lane I simply accelerated because I had plenty of space left to get in front of him before the lane ended. The car behind me decided he was going to do the same thing, though he didn't have the space (nor the acceleration to keep up). So he ends up driving on the shoulder after the lane ends and then falling in behind me. I'm a little concerned now, because he's crossed the line from just being someone who's possibly annoyed with my driving to being someone who's taking some really dumb risks. So I keep a close eye on him and he quickly pulls up alongside of me and slams on his brakes so that he's going the same speed as me. I look over to make sure he did it on purpose (and to see if he's doing anything else, like waving a gun). As soon as I can tell he is looking at me (and since I know there's no one behind me at this point) I press on the brakes to get him in front of me. He pulls into my lane and starts flashing his brake lights, but not actually slowing down. I simply coast to let him pull away some more and then resume driving. For a couple more miles he kept changing lanes to stay in front of me. Eventually he took an exit, and after watching the following entrance to make sure he wasn't just trying to trick me, I went back to my normal driving.

Still not sure what that was all about, but I was thinking at the time that he might have pulled a gun and started shooting it at me. I agree with the other posters that disengaging is the right way to go. However, if I did end up pinned in somehow, I would stop the car, open the window and door, and use the door for cover to figure out what he was going to do next. It was definitely one of those few times that I have been carrying that I was really glad I was, which makes all the other times that it's primarily a hassle worth it.
 
Devil's advocate time. The perp next to you is aiming at you to take a shot at you (you couldn't know his motives). Within a couple seconds of your seeing his wavering barrel, he puts a round through your window and into your throat. Now you have plenty of time to gurgle as you coast to the side of the road, shot but with the satisfaction of knowing you weren't too trigger happy. I thought the advantage of a handgun is that it is instantly accessible and thus, can save your life in a split-second. Don't cops shoot at someone "just" for aiming at them? Is it not possible that failing to drill your attacker here could cost you your life?
 
It is hard enough for most people under stress to place hits on the threat while on foot. You're kidding yourself to think your just going to whip out your pistol, calmly take aim, and score a hit while maintaining control of you vehicle doing 60 or so down the road. And if you're just sprayin' and prayin' then you are more of a threat to innocent third parties than the BG is to you at this point.
 
Unless you were out in the desert or woods without any other traffic or cars around ... I don't see how any responsible gun owner could consider this a 'shoot' situation around other traffic or in town, no matter how grave the risk.

Know your target and what is beyond. Pretty tough to observe this rule while driving down a street.

And, in a case like this, know how to handle your vehicle ... it is a very big weapon in the right hands. I agree with those who would drive to disengage - not too tough when he is right next to you. Just take a quick left or right, and he is gone. I've done it, but without having a gun pointed at me.

Regards from AZ
 
Simonov - time to get down to the nitty gritty. Do you have any significant firearms training? You seem to be just one of the typical types who just wants a justification to shoot.

All the analyses on the thread indicate there are better ways. Your analysis of time does not indicate a real comprehension of the situation.

Avoidance is a thousand times better than a gun fight between cars.

Don't carry a gun until you are better able to understand the issues. Sorry to be so harsh.
 
No shoot for the reasons above plus it's too easy to mistake a toy, laser pointer or other object for a gun.

EnochGale, I don't think you're quite opinionated enough for TFL ;).
 
I vote for no-shoot, both for the practical reasons already cited and because of the law (here in Florida at least) about the "duty to retreat". You can keep that guy off your shoulder easily, and evade.

Getting on the brakes is step one. If you can get to the shoulder and stop, traffic may prevent him from sticking with you. Drive across grass if possible, and get someplace where you can go inside and use a phone. The ideal place is a police station.

As soon as you disengage, you should call 911 and give his license plate, description and direction to the cops.

Side note: With two bullet-deflecting, curved safety-glass windows between you and him, what are the odds that either one of you is going to score a one shot hit anyway?
 
I'm sorry - I will try harder :)

On a serious note, sometimes you see folks
who just want to shoot. Rauch's book
says avoid if you can - that's good enough for me.

I fear that we will lose gun rights because of such folks. Following the Sasutrop case
thread gives me shivers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top