Shoot/Dont Shoot Scenario 1

I don't know about the legalities of shooting someone in the back,
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There aren't any laws in the US that specify that the application of lethal force must only be to the front of a person. The notion that shooting a person in the back is somehow wrong or illegal is TV garbage. If you are in a situation where lethal force is justified by law, then the person can be shot from any direction, any, etc.

Do not attempt to manipulate the scene and illegally shoot the person a second time, but in the front.
 
First, . . . get my wife to going back to the store, to the other side of a car, anywhere that she will be safe, . . . tell her to call 911 and report what has happened. All the while, . . . un-holstering and observing the perp & hostage.

Second, . . . try to get (using as much cover as is available) close enough to be able to effectively do what needs to be done. At the same time shouting: stop, . . . let her go, . . . etc.

The one thing here that scares me is I really do not know the players, . . . is there something here that I don't understand, . . . did the kid try to shoot the guy (and I didn't see it), . . . and the guy is an LEO???

I really don't like the idea of letting him leave with the girl, . . . would seriously attempt to stop it, . . . but without a script, . . . this play could make me the bad guy very quickly.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Come now

:rolleyes:

Find a telephone booth and put on my Superman uniform;).

If you are going to do scenarios, at least make them believable. The best are those event that have actually happened.
 
if anybody shoots in my direction (and I see no good reason for it*) I'll try to stop him before he has a chance to kill me.

On the other hand I would not enter into a gunfight that's not my own unless I exactly know what's going on and who's the good/bad one...

*) good reason: Dog chewing on me, my gun out of reach and good guy/cop shoots dog etc etc...
 
Number one thing is to be sure my loved one is no longer in danger so get her back out of view from the attacker. Next would be draw my weapon and acquire a good line of fire with the least possibility of hitting the girl. (Remember to keep a peripheral view of the car he came from.)

Tell him to let her go and to not move his hand and to let go of the gun. If he even appears to move his arm toward me or the girl, fire!!!

That is what I would like to happen second only to him dropping the gun and letting her go. The truth is I don't know what will happen. I have been robbed by someone who said they had a gun in their pocket. I didn't feel threatened and so I didn't shoot him. It was rather interesting to see my actions on the cameras after the fact. I felt confident in my decisions that i did the right thing. So in the shooting scenario I feel that I would do the right thing in that decision.
 
Scenarios on a page and read in a calm environment are difficult because they cannot create or re-create the dynamics of the actual event. With that being said:

If I am on-scene and perceive this to be a murder-kidnapping I'll get my wife to safety and have her call 911. I'd shoot the suspect the first chance I have where neither the girl or innocent bystanders are endangered by my shot. He will receive no warning and it wouldn't matter if he were facing me or not.

If I have any doubts (was he rescuing the girl?) I'll hold my fire and get the police rolling to the scene.
 
Ejh28 wrote:


...

I know i've watched too many movies, but I prefer to live by the saying; " All that it takes for evil to prosper, is the indifference of good men."
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How do you define, "Good men" ? I suspect that they are those that do according to my beliefs, that which I want them to do, when I want them to do it.

Read up on:

http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/links/ipcc.htm

then tell who the good men have been, and the identify the remaining "Other than 'Good men'".

In the given scenario, I'd retreat, pushing my partner ahead of me, or if that is not possible, I'd push her down behind the 12" high concrete planter, pull my S&W and hunker down, preparing to defend, if assaulted. Once in a reasonably defensive position, I'd call 911.
 
From what I read from the attached CCWInfoPack (starting on pg 8), in Colorado you'd be justified in blowing him away. As others have said, I'd personally just get out of the way and observe since you aren't sure who the "real" bad guy is.
 

Attachments

I am now a Florida Law Enforcement officer who just went though my training. And as the Law was explained to us, you have the right as a private citizen to act to prevent a forcible felony (IE Kidnapping). Also You have the right to Self Defense and the defense of another as long as you have a reasonable fear of one of three things:
1) Death
2) Grave Bodily Harm
3) Permanent Disfigurement

Which is of course met when the BG starts shooting. However you must also very carefully way that against where all your bullets will end up. Because you are legally responsible for that bullet once it leaves your weapon. However IMO if someone was already shot possibly dead, and another is in the process of being kidnapped. I don't think my morals would allow me to not take action. So again IMO I would shoot but be ready for the possible consequence of that action.
 
In this case, you'd probably be found not guilty in a criminal lawsuit. However, the bad guy (if you don't kill him) and/or his family can come after you in a civil lawsuit and take your money, house, etc. Hopefully you'd win the civil case too but you never know with our legal system.
 
I can't say what I'd do without being there...

But in my stable state of mind, I would go low and scatter for cover and draw to a low ready from cover. Main objectives here.

* Find cover / Remove myself and wife from the threat
* Get an ID of assailant and vehicle.
* Remove threat by means of my own weapon, if we were continually pressured.
 
I grab my wife/partner and push her behind the nearest cover I can get too, me if nothing else is available. Once she is safe I have to see where the situation is at that point before taking further action. Hopefully I would have thought to get my wife/partner down behind that little garden wall. I might then draw my gun and if I can find a clear shot I might shoot the prick. Under my state's law he has already done three things to make is justifiable homocide if I were to kill him. Then again, I may not feel I could take any action without getting killed myself. If I could draw and take aim from cover, knowing my wife/partner is safe, and having a clear shot, and having my 1911 on me and not my HK, I'd probably shoot.
 
Dump the packages. Move to the left and get SO and myself down behind the wall. SO on the phone to 911 with her cell. Then down on one knee behind the shrubs/wall and drawn weapon low ready, I take a picture of the prep and his ride with my phone if possible. Can I get the plate #? As long as his gun isn't turned toward us I don't shoot. Do I see blood on the teenager that is down? If so, when prep is gone I render aid if possible.
 
Drop the packages & get the wife & me to a safe place under cover. If that gun points toward my direction, I open up until he stops shooting & crawls somewhere else to die....

...which is remarkably similar to my answer to "What to do if a Bear charges you?".....

WA: Y'all got one cute govenor up there in Alaska. Wanna trade?
 
WA: Y'all got one cute govenor up there in Alaska. Wanna trade?
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Nope shes ours...:D

She just bludgeoned the Oil Companies and the entire legislature into a new tax scheme...she again left the broken bodies of politicos and pundits in her wake...her approval rating is around 80%...and we are gonna take in another 2 billion here :)

I just sent her an email telling her to run for President in 2012 :)

WildshessuchagilfAlaska ™
 
First, i'd drop the boxes not due to freeing up my hands for a tactical advantage, but because that mochachino latte had a lot of caffene, and i'm pretty wired.
As soon as thats done, I'd lament the fragile nature of the gifts, and reflect for a moment on how long i'm going to be spending in the customer service lines for a return/exchange.
As soon as I hear "oh my god he's got a gun!" screams, i'd probably check myself to make sure I'm not printing, as I scan 360* to try and find the car that just backfired a moment ago and caused me to drop my packages.

Shortly after noticing that the teenager was shot and presumed killed, my mind would probably remember a quaint Dickens line about decreasing the surplus population, as i moved quickly away from him, lest the blood spatter my khaki's. Its impossible to get blood out, and I'm not going to be able to chop the legs off this pair and wear them as shorts for quite some time.

I'd then think to myself, "Wouldn't I want someone to act if that was my daughter being kidnapped?" as I fumbled with my jacket's zipper, and then tried to get my gun as I searched through layers of clothing piled on so thick, you'd think my older brother's name was Ralphie, who had a fascination with BB guns.

Several seconds later as the car sped away, i'd bask in the admiration of the onlookers, who can't stop gazing admiringly who stood his ground in the parking lot, and didn't give an inch of ground to the murderers & kidnappers.
 
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