SQUAREKNOT
New member
I am shooting better groups with one hand than with two hands. No doubt
I am doing something major wrong-BUT WHAT???
TIA
I am doing something major wrong-BUT WHAT???
TIA
shoot better with 1 hand-whats wrong
- Thread starter SQUAREKNOT
- Start date
Shane Tuttle
Staff
What stance are you using?
oldandslow
New member
sk, 6/12/11
The goal is to be able to shoot reasonably fast, accurately and with quick followup shots. If you can do all this one-handed then there is no reason to change. However most of us need a two handed grip to do the above well. If you cannot do these activities well then there are a number of possible problems which can probably be worked out quickest by taking a class from a firearms trainer. When you consider the time and ammo you spend trying to self diagnose problems it may be cheaper just to take a quality course.
best wishes - oldandslow
The goal is to be able to shoot reasonably fast, accurately and with quick followup shots. If you can do all this one-handed then there is no reason to change. However most of us need a two handed grip to do the above well. If you cannot do these activities well then there are a number of possible problems which can probably be worked out quickest by taking a class from a firearms trainer. When you consider the time and ammo you spend trying to self diagnose problems it may be cheaper just to take a quality course.
best wishes - oldandslow
You did not convey any details about your shooting; both one handed and two handed. I do not see how anyone can comment intelligently on what your doing wrong or right without knowing anything about what you are actually doing.
At what distance are you shooting?
What handgun and cartridge are you shooting?
How much time per shot are you taking?
What stance do you use for both?
What is the difference in the size of your groups?
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SQUAREKNOT
New member
One handed I take a typical bulls eye stance and shoot @ 35 feet usually.
Two hands I shoot weak leg forward, right arm straight out and support not quite locked. I am shooting 45 ACP with a full sized Kimber Tactical II.
The targets are 3" with a 1" center. Groups are in the 3" circle with one hand with a sometimes shooting to cluster of half the rounds @ 8:30 (two groups) but mostly they stay in the circle. Rate of fire is approx 8rds in a minute.
The two handed groups can be all breaking the line on the 1" circle IF I CAN MAINTAIN MY CONCENTRATION!!! That doesn't happen often! I have a good group going and throw the rest all around the 3" circle, 8" group. I suspect my grip changes as I shoot. I noted the strong hand increasing tension and different supporting hand seems to move around.
One thing I found really makes a difference is if I can mentally "take a picture just as the shot breaks" Also seeing the muzzle flash means a much tighter group. ???maybe a world class flinch?
Two hands I shoot weak leg forward, right arm straight out and support not quite locked. I am shooting 45 ACP with a full sized Kimber Tactical II.
The targets are 3" with a 1" center. Groups are in the 3" circle with one hand with a sometimes shooting to cluster of half the rounds @ 8:30 (two groups) but mostly they stay in the circle. Rate of fire is approx 8rds in a minute.
The two handed groups can be all breaking the line on the 1" circle IF I CAN MAINTAIN MY CONCENTRATION!!! That doesn't happen often! I have a good group going and throw the rest all around the 3" circle, 8" group. I suspect my grip changes as I shoot. I noted the strong hand increasing tension and different supporting hand seems to move around.
One thing I found really makes a difference is if I can mentally "take a picture just as the shot breaks" Also seeing the muzzle flash means a much tighter group. ???maybe a world class flinch?
SQUAREKNOT,
You make it sound like you have both physical and mental issues. You mention concentration which is mental. Additionally, you mention how your grip changes.
Physically, shooting is about consistency. You are trying to be machine-like. Your best accuracy comes when you do everything the same way each time you let a bullet fly.
Of course concentration, is necessary to force your body to do the same thing as uniformly as possible. In my experience time tends to wear down concentration. Try speeding up your shooting to reduce loss of concentration. You have to seek what works for you.
Do you try to "follow through" on each shot?
Physically, perhaps the fewer muscles involved in a one-hand shooting style leads to less variation for you, and that is why you get tighter groups.
This may be far off target since I have not actually seen you shoot.
You make it sound like you have both physical and mental issues. You mention concentration which is mental. Additionally, you mention how your grip changes.
Physically, shooting is about consistency. You are trying to be machine-like. Your best accuracy comes when you do everything the same way each time you let a bullet fly.
Of course concentration, is necessary to force your body to do the same thing as uniformly as possible. In my experience time tends to wear down concentration. Try speeding up your shooting to reduce loss of concentration. You have to seek what works for you.
Do you try to "follow through" on each shot?
Physically, perhaps the fewer muscles involved in a one-hand shooting style leads to less variation for you, and that is why you get tighter groups.
This may be far off target since I have not actually seen you shoot.
bullethole1
Moderator
wow,you should be proud of yourself! I wish I could be good with one hand! I never had any trouble using both hands! I would just keep using one hand because I dont see anything wrong with it,that way in case an alligator would bite off your other arm you can still use that one hand and your experience with one hand shooting will be a advantage for you! 
Without a lot of information to process, it would be difficult to venture a guess. If someone took a picture of your two-handed grip, it would certainly make it a lot easier to analyze.
It has been my experience that people that have problem with two-handed shooting are utilizing an improper grip and not fully taking proper advantage of the supporting hand.
My recommendation would be to find a friendly instructor and ask him to watch you shoot two handed an offer a critique.
Good Luck. And by the way, most people have a difficult time with single handed shooting. Good for you on accomplishing that aspect of marksmanship.
It has been my experience that people that have problem with two-handed shooting are utilizing an improper grip and not fully taking proper advantage of the supporting hand.
My recommendation would be to find a friendly instructor and ask him to watch you shoot two handed an offer a critique.
Good Luck. And by the way, most people have a difficult time with single handed shooting. Good for you on accomplishing that aspect of marksmanship.
My $0.02:
I generally agree with Mello2Us, specifically:
Most people think that a 2-handed grip always lends itself to better accuracy, but I suspect it's because people only see a stabilization of "the wobble", but under-appreciate consistency and trigger control, which are the bigger deals.
While gripping the gun, any point of contact affect the gun, and each of these points must be applied consistently, and adding a 2nd hand doubles the points of contact that must be applied consistently.
It also sounds like you're describing something along the lines of a Weaver stance. You didn't mention if you're also pushing with your strong arm and pulling with your weak, but this is a very difficult stance to apply consistently. Imagine if your gun had a separate grip for each hand - where do you think the muzzle would then point with your 2-handed grip? If it ain't at the bullseye, it's gonna be tough to be consistent. Personally, I prefer a very neutral isosceles stance, with your body squared to the target. Remove 1 hand, and the gun remains pointed at the bull.
Finally, there's s strong tendency to peak at the target between shots. It's a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Square up to the target, look where you want to hit, then raise the gun, get a good sight picture, then lock your attention on the front sight, and keep it there (even during recoil) until you're done shooting. Don't adjust your grip during the string, and your trigger pull shouldn't affect your sight alignment, of course. Eventually, you'll know whether you shot a good group before you even looked at the target afterward.
I generally agree with Mello2Us, specifically:
Most people think that a 2-handed grip always lends itself to better accuracy, but I suspect it's because people only see a stabilization of "the wobble", but under-appreciate consistency and trigger control, which are the bigger deals.
While gripping the gun, any point of contact affect the gun, and each of these points must be applied consistently, and adding a 2nd hand doubles the points of contact that must be applied consistently.
It also sounds like you're describing something along the lines of a Weaver stance. You didn't mention if you're also pushing with your strong arm and pulling with your weak, but this is a very difficult stance to apply consistently. Imagine if your gun had a separate grip for each hand - where do you think the muzzle would then point with your 2-handed grip? If it ain't at the bullseye, it's gonna be tough to be consistent. Personally, I prefer a very neutral isosceles stance, with your body squared to the target. Remove 1 hand, and the gun remains pointed at the bull.
Finally, there's s strong tendency to peak at the target between shots. It's a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Square up to the target, look where you want to hit, then raise the gun, get a good sight picture, then lock your attention on the front sight, and keep it there (even during recoil) until you're done shooting. Don't adjust your grip during the string, and your trigger pull shouldn't affect your sight alignment, of course. Eventually, you'll know whether you shot a good group before you even looked at the target afterward.
Edward429451
Moderator
You need to pay attention to how your hands touch the gun and find the sweet spot for you. You probably grip it too hard and incorrectly, or it would recoil right back into place for you. How much finger do you use? I shoot better when I use less finger. If you can see muzzle flash then you are almost there. You have to be able to look through the shot and see the dirt fly in your periphrial vision, while not losing track of the front sight.
You need to try shooting different grips. One day it'll be like turning on a light and it will work for you. Suddenly you'll be a lot better with two hands than with one! For me, it was the day I unwrapped my strong hand and went two thumbs forward instead. Amazing.
You need to try shooting different grips. One day it'll be like turning on a light and it will work for you. Suddenly you'll be a lot better with two hands than with one! For me, it was the day I unwrapped my strong hand and went two thumbs forward instead. Amazing.
SQUAREKNOT
New member
Mr Borland
Finally, there's s strong tendency to peak at the target between shots. It's a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Square up to the target, look where you want to hit, then raise the gun, get a good sight picture, then lock your attention on the front sight, and keep it there (even during recoil) until you're done shooting. Don't adjust your grip during the string, and your trigger pull shouldn't affect your sight alignment, of course. Eventually, you'll know whether you shot a good group before you even looked at the target afterward.
WE SHOOT TONIGHT WEATHER PERMITTING I THINK YOU GOT A LOT OF MY PROBLEM FIGURED. BTW I do not push and pull with each hand using two hands.
Tomorrow-I will give results
Finally, there's s strong tendency to peak at the target between shots. It's a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Square up to the target, look where you want to hit, then raise the gun, get a good sight picture, then lock your attention on the front sight, and keep it there (even during recoil) until you're done shooting. Don't adjust your grip during the string, and your trigger pull shouldn't affect your sight alignment, of course. Eventually, you'll know whether you shot a good group before you even looked at the target afterward.
WE SHOOT TONIGHT WEATHER PERMITTING I THINK YOU GOT A LOT OF MY PROBLEM FIGURED. BTW I do not push and pull with each hand using two hands.
Tomorrow-I will give results
Terrific - we're looking forward to your range report.
I wrote this before in another thread, but it bears repeating: The target doesn't really matter, ironically enough. It's merely the device that records how well and how consistently the fundamentals were applied. Remembering this helps keep me focused on that front sight.
Good luck!
I wrote this before in another thread, but it bears repeating: The target doesn't really matter, ironically enough. It's merely the device that records how well and how consistently the fundamentals were applied. Remembering this helps keep me focused on that front sight.
Good luck!
g.willikers
New member
It doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong.
Slow fire is probably done more accurately single handed, for most people.
Less pressure and possible disturbance on the gun.
Two handed style was developed for really fast shooting, and recoil control, not necessarily requiring great accuracy.
Like emptying the gun in a couple of seconds on center of mass, at less than ten yards.
As I see it, you are doing just fine as you are.
Slow fire is probably done more accurately single handed, for most people.
Less pressure and possible disturbance on the gun.
Two handed style was developed for really fast shooting, and recoil control, not necessarily requiring great accuracy.
Like emptying the gun in a couple of seconds on center of mass, at less than ten yards.
As I see it, you are doing just fine as you are.
One hand is fine when you can't use two
Until I get my left rotator cuff done, I'm stuck with one-handed shooting. Bullseye position is fine, and I do everything from .45 boomer to .25 mousegun. Accuracy is OK. When the cuff is fixed and I'm done with physical therapy, I'll do one hand on the other side to even things out. Then back to two handed.
Until I get my left rotator cuff done, I'm stuck with one-handed shooting. Bullseye position is fine, and I do everything from .45 boomer to .25 mousegun. Accuracy is OK. When the cuff is fixed and I'm done with physical therapy, I'll do one hand on the other side to even things out. Then back to two handed.
And you are bothered by this because????
Learned one handed, competed over 20 years one handed, only did two handed and left handed after getting into PPC matches and now I practice strong weak and two hand regularly.
But....put me on the range and anything under 25 yards if I am shooting against somebody in a friendly match will be one handed on my part. Tickles my giggle to see some young squirt 30 years younger then me getting laughed at by his comrades because the old coot with the cane and the beard is out shooting his 2 hand stance with just one hand. Doesn't happen all the time but often enough it keeps me doing it.
About the only time I use two hands voluntarily is pistol hunting squirrels or jack rabbits at 30-60 yards and I use a supported position and two hands if a support is available, if not I will skip the shot, closer than that I still revert to one handed. One handed isn't a bad thing unless you only ever do it with strong hand, you need to practice weak hand too. You never know when it will be needed. .
SQUAREKNOT
New member
Mental issues for sure!
The first string was the 10rds/ 10 minutes. I saw the muzzle flash and really watched that front sight. I shot a 97/100-best I ever did. The next
was the slow fire and I finished WAY EARLY with both strings. The same with rapid fire. I shot way too fast and lost my concentration off and on.
I ended up with 255/300.
I would have done much better if I had a sense of the time I had left.
The bottom line is watch the front sight and try learn to estimate the time you have to shoot. I should say the targets were the personal defense and not bulls eye targets.
I also need to learn how to recover faster-not quite sure how to explain but it seemed to me half the time was recovery as I lost the front sight and had to refocus?
Thanks for all the help everyone
The first string was the 10rds/ 10 minutes. I saw the muzzle flash and really watched that front sight. I shot a 97/100-best I ever did. The next
was the slow fire and I finished WAY EARLY with both strings. The same with rapid fire. I shot way too fast and lost my concentration off and on.
I ended up with 255/300.
I would have done much better if I had a sense of the time I had left.
The bottom line is watch the front sight and try learn to estimate the time you have to shoot. I should say the targets were the personal defense and not bulls eye targets.
I also need to learn how to recover faster-not quite sure how to explain but it seemed to me half the time was recovery as I lost the front sight and had to refocus?
Thanks for all the help everyone
Glad you're working things through.
It's difficult to do, but getting your conscious self out of the way so your subconscious can do some good shooting is key. Shooting too quickly can be a problem, but when the tempo slows, lots of "idiot thoughts" have time to creep in. It's a particular problem with single shot 10m air pistols, for instance. It helps to run a consistent mental program between shots to keep the "thinking" shut out. For me, it's very helpful to visualize a perfect sight picture, mentally "feel" a perfect trigger pull, and "see" a bullseye between shots.
It's difficult to do, but getting your conscious self out of the way so your subconscious can do some good shooting is key. Shooting too quickly can be a problem, but when the tempo slows, lots of "idiot thoughts" have time to creep in. It's a particular problem with single shot 10m air pistols, for instance. It helps to run a consistent mental program between shots to keep the "thinking" shut out. For me, it's very helpful to visualize a perfect sight picture, mentally "feel" a perfect trigger pull, and "see" a bullseye between shots.
there is nothing wrong. some people are just more comfortable and in turn more relaxed and can do better. I shoot better with my right alone than with two hands. I never think about it though.
when I do the one handed shots, my feet are perpendicular to the target, and my arm is holding the weapon in the same direction. like a sideways shot.
my front foot is facing the target, the back foot is perpendicular to my front foot.
I like this for many reasons. one, because I am "sideways" the force in my arm is reduced because it travels in a different way through my arm, than if I am standing facing the target. when I fire facing the target, my arms take most of the shock. the second reason is that I feel much more grounded than when I am facing the target. I am not being pushed back by the recoil.
I see instructional videos and pics all the time with people leaning forward in their shots, one handed or not. either that or extending their neck forward, which is really not comfortable, and makes no sense to me.
when I do the one handed shots, my feet are perpendicular to the target, and my arm is holding the weapon in the same direction. like a sideways shot.
my front foot is facing the target, the back foot is perpendicular to my front foot.
I like this for many reasons. one, because I am "sideways" the force in my arm is reduced because it travels in a different way through my arm, than if I am standing facing the target. when I fire facing the target, my arms take most of the shock. the second reason is that I feel much more grounded than when I am facing the target. I am not being pushed back by the recoil.
I see instructional videos and pics all the time with people leaning forward in their shots, one handed or not. either that or extending their neck forward, which is really not comfortable, and makes no sense to me.