Shoot a gun? With like bullets?!?!?

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Jim I have learned the hard way over many years that trying to talk someone in to, or out of, something they have made up their mind about is usually a waste of time. I have time so I'll play anyway.:D

I understand that for many us who believe that guns are a right guaranteed by our constitution, the idea of admitting guns are inherently dangerous somehow diminishes our authority. It does not. The right to bear arms is understood to mean that arms are central to our ability to defend ourselves and our freedom. Arms, guns, and weapons in this context are synonymous. Some will say that all guns are not weapons; for the purpose of this conversation I don't think that matters at all. To tell someone that my weapons are not dangerous lacks credibility and makes me look either foolish, stupid, or both IMO.
 
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I don't see a reason for anyone to be afraid of guns.

If I had to name people I know or have heard about that have died. I would probably name 50 to 1 (probably a lot more) that died in auto crashes than shot and stabbed together.

I can't think of a single person thats scared to go for a ride in a car.
 
UK gent

Friend of a friend is a UK gent, and he comes stateside about twice a year. One of his highlights is my buddy carries him to the club and they bang away with all manner of firearms, mostly handguns. The grin is huge!.

I have had a brother in law visit recently, he is not ignorant of firearms, shot sporting clays a bit, and deer hunted some in MI, his home state. Showed him some of my stuff and he was amazed at all the semi-auto firearms. Actually used some of the classic media lines, "shoot from the hip", spray bullets" etc. Not malicious or mean spirited, its just all he knew.

Knowing his Dad was a WWII vet, we went out into the yard (you can shoot HERE?) and ran a few clips through the Garand. Again, the grin was huge!!!
 
People fear the unknown,,,
And mostly they fear the unknown that has been made "scary".
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Yep. Most people are totally ignorant of firearms these days, and so they fear them. All we can do is introduce more people to it. Most people who try it, like it. Or so has been my experience.
 
Hoplophobia is "fear of an instrument".

To tell someone that my weapons are not dangerous lacks credibility and makes me look either foolish, stupid, or both IMO.
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None of your "weapons" will do didly squat by themselves: a person has to use them/misuse them to make them dangerous. Left on their own, they'll just sit there, inert .....

Anything can be used as a weapon: a gun, a car, a fork, an atom bomb. It takes a person, either through skill or incompetence, knoledge or ignorance, for good or ill, to be dangerous with it.


A gun is a powerful tool, to be sure, and fools, heroes and malicious people can do much damage with them in short order, but it is the fool or the hero or the goblin bent on destruction that make them dangerous.

Great White sharks are dangerous. Cliffs are dangerous. Impact Areas are dangerous. All my guns are in working order, and are no more dangerous than the cars in my driveway.
 
None of your "weapons" will do didly squat by themselves: a person has to use them/misuse them to make them dangerous. Left on their own, they'll just sit there, inert .....

Anything can be used as a weapon: a gun, a car, a fork, an atom bomb. It takes a person, either through skill or incompetence, knowledge or ignorance, for good or ill, to be dangerous with it.


A gun is a powerful tool, to be sure, and fools, heroes and malicious people can do much damage with them in short order, but it is the fool or the hero or the goblin bent on destruction that make them dangerous.

Great White sharks are dangerous. Cliffs are dangerous. Impact Areas are dangerous. All my guns are in working order, and are no more dangerous than the cars in my driveway.
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And it is sad some people can not get past the part where anything can be a weapon .It seems as if they have some kind of block or that if they were to agree with you then they know they are wrong and maybe you might be right.
 
jimbob as predicted I will not change your mind. You will not change mine. For the record I never said guns are to be feared. Something being dangerous and being afraid of it are two different things. I am not afraid of a table saw; it is an indispensable tool. With that said, I know it is dangerous to use one, and that must be must be respected. We can argue semantics all day. I do not intend to do so. Peace.
 
jimbob as predicted I will not change your mind. You will not change mine.
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Aye, but dozens, if not hundreds of people will read both our arguments: I'm convincing some of them.

As for your table saw analogy: the table saw is not dangerous- it's the fool running it that will cause a board to kick back .....properly used and maintained, it is perfectly safe.
 
I have to stick with my original statement and agree with jimbob86...

A gun is just a piece (or pieces) of steel. It is steel shaped and formed into a tool. When did a piece of steel become dangerous? When did a screwdriver (tool) become dangerous.

They are inanimate objects, that if left alone will remain as they were left. So again, how can an inanimate object be labled as dangerous? In order for something to be dangerous, it has to be a threat to your health/safety through no outside means/force.

Would you consider a baseball bat laying on the ground dangerous?
What about a claw hammer laying on a workbench?

A gun does what it was designed to do....Fire projectiles. It cannot fire without someone manipulating the controls. Guns don't kill people...PEOPLE kill people WITH guns and knives, and baseball bats, and claw hammers, and cars, and anything else that MAN can conceive to use as a weapon...
 
Yes, guns are inanimate objects, incapable of autonomous action. That doesn't mean that they're not dangerous. Are other objects dangerous? Sure. Can they be used in dangerous ways? Sure. Does either of those mean that guns are not dangerous? No. The fact that a ball peen hammer can be used in a dangerous fashion does not enlighten the issue of whether a handgun is dangerous.

It is true that virtually any object can be used as a weapon, but guns are inherently more dangerous than some other inanimate objects. If there were some other inanimate (& legal) object that were better than a handgun at inflicting fight-stopping damage at short, but more-than-arms-length range, possibly against multiple attackers, why in the world would anyone continue to carry a handgun? Isn't a handgun the carry weapon of choice precisely because it is dangerous?
 
So if guns are not dangerous, why pick them up off the coffee table when the grandkids come over, or put up the knives? They're inanimate objects which will not jump up and attack them.

Oh, you do pick them up. Well that's good. when you pick it up you're saying to yourself yep that's a danger, better put it up.

I'm as pro gun as they come but I'm not going to play feed my ego with dangerous articles when it's just as easy to have some common sense. :)
 
precision_shooter said:
...Would you consider a baseball bat laying on the ground dangerous?
What about a claw hammer laying on a workbench?

A gun does what it was designed to do....Fire projectiles....
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Phooey. An object may properly be considered dangerous in proportion to its sensitivity to the way it's handled. And that make a gun a dangerous device.

A baseball bat or hammer has little potential to cause injury unless [mis]handled in particular, and often extreme, ways. And the damages most likely arising from the more common handling errors tend to be rather minor -- a smashed thumb or broken lamp, for example.

But the safe handling of a gun warrants close attention at all times. A small error in handling can cause serious injury or death. An unintended firings of a gun with a tragic result can result from a minor lapse of attention, and many tragic gun accidents (i. e., an unintended event) were caused by minor, transient lapses of judgment or attention.
 
An object may properly be considered dangerous in proportion to its sensitivity to the way it's handled. And that make a gun a dangerous device.
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fiddletown in 25 words what I've been trying to say for 2 days.:cool: Thank you.
 
So if guns are not dangerous, why pick them up off the coffee table when the grandkids come over, or put up the knives? They're inanimate objects which will not jump up and attack them.
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You pick them up because little kids are a hazard to themselves: for the same reson you do not leave little kids unattended: Left on their own, they'll find a way to injure themselves somehow, because, being kids, they make poor choices, because they don't know any better. You don't let them have the car keys for the same reason. It's not that the keys are dangerous, but face it: they are fools, because they don't know any better. They don't start thinking straight until well into their teens, and sometimes longer..... trust me, as a father of 5, I am an expert experienced in asking "Why did you _________? " The answer almost invariably starts off "I didn't think ....." with the teenagers, and "I don't know." with the younger ones..... you can tell their brains are starting to work when they begin to start off with the former....
 
I gotta admit, that's a darn good answer, and without saying guns are dangerous! Bravo Jim. :D

Perhaps its all perspective. Perhaps it's easier to blame the object than train the child? If it was a given that kids were taught to be responsible and safe, the answer would always be no, the guns not dangerous. (I raised my kids with loaded guns all over the house and they had loaded handguns in their room at age 10ish, I taught my kids well.)

As I go to click submit, I find myself cringing because I know some morons out there who hold themselves to be savant will read what I did and go endanger their kids to try and prove it. Sigh. Know your limitations.
 
If it was a given that kids were taught to be responsible and safe, the answer would always be no, the guns not dangerous.
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Ed, I teach my kids from the time they can talk "If it is not yours, don't fool with it.", the Four Rules, and the "Golden Rule of Tool Use"..... that said, they are kids, and can at random times do the stupidest things imaginable. As is often said about carrying a gun: "It's not the odds, but the stakes." While my kids get their own guns at 8, I have not let them keep loaded guns unsecure in their room- unsupervised children with guns are a hazard to themselves and others ......
 
When did a piece of steel become dangerous?
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Remember when Bobcats didn't have cages around the driver?
Know why they have cages now?

Lots of things are dangerous including guns. And they should all be used with a certain amount of caution and respect, not fear ... respect.

That's what we always try to teach the kids and the adults. You shouldn't be afraid of guns but you should be very careful with them and treat them with respect. The outcome of carelessness with a hammer is maybe a broken finger but the outcome of carelessness with a gun can be tragic.
 
Remember when Bobcats didn't have cages around the driver?
Know why they have cages now?
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to protect the "person" running the machine...not because the machine is dangerous, but because the "person" running the machine made it dangerous. A bobcat sitting in a field, with or without a cage is not dangerous. Insert a person operating the bobcat then....

It all comes down to the person using the item dangerously or not. You can't label an inanimate object dangerous when it will just sit there until a person interacts with it creating a dangerous situation...
 
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