Shipping UPS

I ship/receive black powder revolvers and rifles by UPS all the time.
A lot, and I mean A LOT of people working in the industry are not familiar with the laws. And for many of them, this job is the only job they have, or can obtain in their area, so they DO NOT want to make mistakes. They rather be safe than sorry and risk losing their only income source.
 
I went through this with UPS a decade or so ago pertaining to AIR PISTOLS. One "Lady" in South Portland Maine refused to ship it unless I was an FFL dealer. "A handgun is a handgun", or so I was told in a very blunt manner. The "gun" was a 1930's vintage Benjamin air pistol I was trying to send out for a new valve. I tried to explain the GCA of 68 to her and the definition of a firearm, to no avail.
After writing to several higher ups in Corporate and threatening to get an NRA boycott started, they fixed the issue... REAL QUICK. She was VERY tight lipped when I returned and would not make eye contact as she accepted my air pistol.;)
 
Willie Sutton said:
Why cause yourself a problem when none exists? Try not talking
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Amen. Even a dumb fish wouldn't get in trouble, if it would only keep it's big mouth SHUT.

Under USPS Regs, there's NO obligation to disclose the contents of ANY parcel, beyond answering the questions every USPS Postal Clerk is supposed to ask of every parcel mailer: "Are the contents flammable, explosive, fragile, perishable or hazardous ?"

If YOU know what you're doing is legal, do it w/o a fuss.


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I had the same issue with my local post office. The clerks wouldn't ship it and I explained the definition of firearm and Texas rules governing shipping. She cited the clause if the antique firearm is a curio or for a museum and since I was shipping it to a gunsmith, that wasn't a museum. I went to another post office and the same thing occurred. I finally talked to the office manager and he said don't describe the contents and ship go ahead and ship it. I did and had no problem getting the pistol to its destination. I just worry if the package is lost, how do you collect your refund if it was insured and you are asked what was in the package.
 
how do you collect your refund if it was insured and you are asked what was in the package.
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You file the claim based on the value of the package, not what was in it. And even if they do ask about the contents it wasn't illegal in the first place so there's nothing they can do about it, the stupidity of two clerks notwithstanding.

Frankly, if I were you'd I'd be filing a formal complaint against the two clerks with the Post Office Inspector General. If they ever do that again, demand a complaint form - they have to give you one and provide a receipt for it when you turn it in. And be sure to get their names along with the form.
 
I appreciate the information. FedEx costs are prohibitive when shipping anything with a trigger on it. UPS told me they will not ship any that fits their definition of a firearm. I think I will contact the IG to get their official response. Thanks
 
You won't get an answer to that question from the Inspector General. His job is to investigate compliance with regulations, not interpret them for the general public. In other words, he responds to complaint forms only.

The answer to your question is in the Post Office regulations manual. You need to assert on the claim form that a specific individual, by name, did violate a given paragraph in that manual on a specific data at a specific time.

They don't make it easy.

The definition of an antique firearm is in the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) 601 Section 12 paragraph 12.1.1 g:
Quote:
Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
The mailability of antique firearms is proscribed in DMM 601 Section 12 paragraph 12.2:
Quote:
Antique Firearms

Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6.
(The referenced paragraphs 12.1.3 through 12.1.6 describe conditions under which certain authorized persons may mail otherwise prohibited guns).

Postal Service employees may not ask a customer what is in the package. The only question they are allowed to ask is whether the package contains anything that is hazardous, perishable or restricted. An antique firearm is considered a restricted item, so if asked that question you must answer yes. However, that's all you need to do. They still cannot ask specifically what the restricted material is. Your answer to the question tells them how to route the item (air transportation, for instance, is not allowed for restricted items) but that's all they need to know.
 
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There are rules and Laws concerning all things shipped by air sea and land. Most are so entertwined with each other that no one person can make sense of it all. You just experienced some of that confusion in your area. Don't bother yourself in trying to debate a UPS agents interpretation of his company's rule. Doing so only increases frustration on both sides of the phone. Side step the issue and find another carrier to use. Hanging onto the anxiety this UPS situation has caused isn't worth your time or energy. As they say on the East coast "For~get about it"
 
Mykeal said:
The only question they are allowed to ask is whether the package contains anything that is hazardous, perishable or restricted. An antique firearm is considered a restricted item, so if asked that question you must answer yes.
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I do not believe you are correct Mykeal. When I mail a package - containing a BP revolver or anything else - the clerk asks "Are the contents flammable, explosive, fragile, perishable or hazardous ?" A C&B revolver falls under none of those categories, so my answer is always 'NO'.
 
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Fingers - you are correct. I pulled that up from an old thread and forgot to change it. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
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