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Shipping handgun via UPS
- Thread starter BarrySDCA
- Start date
My advice is, USE FED-EX
Sorry, but UPS are a bunch of retards, I quit using them after I recieved a shipment of 6000 rounds for my AK and the boxes were severely abused and I am absolutely amazed they didn't manage to hit a primer in thier bungling. They even have a special tag they put on such shipments, so you'd think they'd be careful, but alas, no.
Fed-Ex may cost more, but they treat every single package like they are a baby, at least in my experience.
USPS is pretty good too as long as you have it insured. If you don't use insured mail kiss it goodbye.
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Sorry, but UPS are a bunch of retards, I quit using them after I recieved a shipment of 6000 rounds for my AK and the boxes were severely abused and I am absolutely amazed they didn't manage to hit a primer in thier bungling. They even have a special tag they put on such shipments, so you'd think they'd be careful, but alas, no.
Fed-Ex may cost more, but they treat every single package like they are a baby, at least in my experience.
USPS is pretty good too as long as you have it insured. If you don't use insured mail kiss it goodbye.
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Handguns can be mailed FFL to FFL only.
These links will give you more information:
http://www.ups.com/using/services/packaging/pkg-guide.html
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/termsandconditions/us/restrictions.html
These links will give you more information:
http://www.ups.com/using/services/packaging/pkg-guide.html
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/termsandconditions/us/restrictions.html
I looked into FedX. They only permit guns to be shipped if they are pratically in pieces. No completely working units at all!
It's not that broke! It's just going in for one of the two comp. cleaning/service before the coupon expires.
Do they take the thing appart and clean the inside???? It's a revolver that I purchased almost a year ago.
It's not that broke! It's just going in for one of the two comp. cleaning/service before the coupon expires.
Do they take the thing appart and clean the inside???? It's a revolver that I purchased almost a year ago.
Here is the law that says so. Taken from the ATF website.
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her
own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be
notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package
indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A) and 922(e), 27 CFR 178.31]
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her
own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be
notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package
indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A) and 922(e), 27 CFR 178.31]
bdog is absolutely correct, Cawdor's comment is not correct...lets try to stop this myth and not force imaginary restrictions on ourselves. What the G does to us is bad enough.
char is right, a handgun can be received by a non-FFL if the factory sends to them after repair...that is one of the few exceptions that a handgun can be received by a non-FFL.
~bamf
char is right, a handgun can be received by a non-FFL if the factory sends to them after repair...that is one of the few exceptions that a handgun can be received by a non-FFL.
~bamf
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have ship my Rugers to the Ruger factory two or three times, and they ship it back to me at my home. I used UPS and declare it. I do not have a FFL. I maybe wrong but as long as you ship it to the factory they can ship it back to you.[/quote]
Ruger can get away with pretty much anything after drafting the bill to make us less effective.
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Ruger can get away with pretty much anything after drafting the bill to make us less effective.
------------------
The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Brett Bellmore
New member
Dangus, Calico got away with shipping my "assault weapon" back to me after some warrantee work, and I don't have an FFL.
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Sic semper tyrannis!
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Sic semper tyrannis!
Cawdor is absolutely correct. Handguns can only be MAILED from FFL to FFL (03 FFL's do not count). However, this only applies to the USPS. Only the recipient needs to have an FFL when using other carriers. By the way, there is no legal requirement to notify a carrier that the package contains a firearm as long as you are shipping to a licensee (FFL holder). In addition, a licensee may return a firearm to a nonlicensee that he received the firearm from for repair or replacement.
[This message has been edited by EOD Guy (edited September 15, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by EOD Guy (edited September 15, 2000).]
There is now a federal legal requirement to declare firearms to a common carrier. It was part of the Brady Anti-Crime Act of 1994. The common carrier also includes airlines, though they were covered on FAA regs prior to that. Individuals may only ship handguns via common carrier, FFL's may mail handguns or ship handguns, to an FFL. Longguns may be mailed or shipped to an FFL by any party.
The cheapest way for an individual to ship a handgun via UPS is to disassemble it so that it is in separate boxes. The frame becomes a 'firearm' and is no longer a 'handgun'. The UPS rules only require next day air on 'handguns' not 'firearms' and according to ATF regs a frame or receiver is a 'firearm'. The box containing the frame would still have to be declared as a 'firearm' to UPS while the second box would not. Since neither box contains a 'handgun' each may be sent UPS ground. Though not as cheap as it use to be the total charges are less than the next day air charges.
The cheapest way for an individual to ship a handgun via UPS is to disassemble it so that it is in separate boxes. The frame becomes a 'firearm' and is no longer a 'handgun'. The UPS rules only require next day air on 'handguns' not 'firearms' and according to ATF regs a frame or receiver is a 'firearm'. The box containing the frame would still have to be declared as a 'firearm' to UPS while the second box would not. Since neither box contains a 'handgun' each may be sent UPS ground. Though not as cheap as it use to be the total charges are less than the next day air charges.
EOD Guy,
Thanks for the CAREFUL reading. I said mailed, i.e., United States Post Office, not shipped via common carrier.
However, I have to disagree with you about the notification to the common carrier. From posts earlier this year, I know BATF told you that it was not required. Shortly after you posted your answer, I wrote BATF with the same question. This is what I was told: "When a [common] carrier is used for firearms shipments, Federal law does require that the carrier be notified in writing that the shipment contains a firearm."
By the way, this was also taken from the BATF web site:
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another State.
[This message has been edited by Cawdor (edited September 15, 2000).]
Thanks for the CAREFUL reading. I said mailed, i.e., United States Post Office, not shipped via common carrier.
However, I have to disagree with you about the notification to the common carrier. From posts earlier this year, I know BATF told you that it was not required. Shortly after you posted your answer, I wrote BATF with the same question. This is what I was told: "When a [common] carrier is used for firearms shipments, Federal law does require that the carrier be notified in writing that the shipment contains a firearm."
By the way, this was also taken from the BATF web site:
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another State.
[This message has been edited by Cawdor (edited September 15, 2000).]
Cawdor,
Where did you write for the information. I got my answer from the Firearms Technology Branch in Washington. They are the ones who write the regulations and who settle disputes about regulation interpritations between field offices. My argument really doesn't have any application in the "real world". Not declaring a firearm presents a lot of potential problems, insurance claims being just one.
Where did you write for the information. I got my answer from the Firearms Technology Branch in Washington. They are the ones who write the regulations and who settle disputes about regulation interpritations between field offices. My argument really doesn't have any application in the "real world". Not declaring a firearm presents a lot of potential problems, insurance claims being just one.
Mr. Blonde
New member
UPS Blows. I will never ship with them. Even if I want a hard to get part and the company uses only UPS..... I will not get it.
I have had way too many inconveniences with them. Especially GROUND, that really sucks.
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"Are You Gonna Bark All Day Little Doggie, Or Are You Gonna Bite?"
"Get rid of that nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself a Glock" - Tommy Lee Jones
I have had way too many inconveniences with them. Especially GROUND, that really sucks.
------------------
"Are You Gonna Bark All Day Little Doggie, Or Are You Gonna Bite?"
"Get rid of that nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself a Glock" - Tommy Lee Jones
EOD Guy,
This is the letter I sent:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Office of Liaison and Public Information
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Room 8290
Washington, DC 20226
Re: Notification to common carriers that a package contains a firearm.
Your web site says that "a carrier must be notified that the shipment contains a firearm" (http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faqb.htm#b7). Yet 18 U.S.C. 922(e) says:
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped.
Similar wording is found in §178.31:
No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped.
These passages seem to create an exception to the requirement that a common carrier must be notified if the firearm is being shipped to a licensee. On the other hand, the passages can be interpreted to mean that if a package contains a firearm, it can be lawfully shipped only to a licensee and the carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.
So, if a non-licensee is shipping a firearm to a licensee in interstate commerce via a common or contract carrier, is the non-licensee required by law to give written notice to the common or contract carrier that the package contains a firearm?[/quote]
The answer I quoted in my previous post was from
Gary Thomas,Chief, Firearms Programs Division
Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, DC 20226
(202) 927-7770
This is the letter I sent:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Office of Liaison and Public Information
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Room 8290
Washington, DC 20226
Re: Notification to common carriers that a package contains a firearm.
Your web site says that "a carrier must be notified that the shipment contains a firearm" (http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faqb.htm#b7). Yet 18 U.S.C. 922(e) says:
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped.
Similar wording is found in §178.31:
No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped.
These passages seem to create an exception to the requirement that a common carrier must be notified if the firearm is being shipped to a licensee. On the other hand, the passages can be interpreted to mean that if a package contains a firearm, it can be lawfully shipped only to a licensee and the carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.
So, if a non-licensee is shipping a firearm to a licensee in interstate commerce via a common or contract carrier, is the non-licensee required by law to give written notice to the common or contract carrier that the package contains a firearm?[/quote]
The answer I quoted in my previous post was from
Gary Thomas,Chief, Firearms Programs Division
Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, DC 20226
(202) 927-7770