The FFL is always required to log the firearm regardless of how long he has it. I think the source of your confusion is that he doesn't have to log the firearm right away.Aguila Blanca said:I thought an FFL didn't have to log in a firearm unless it was going to be in his possession overnight.
Minor footnotes:27 CFR 478.125 said:(e) Firearms receipt and disposition by dealers.Except as provided in § 478.124a with respect to alternate records for the receipt and disposition of firearms by dealers,[§ 478.124a is obsolete, see note below], each licensed dealer shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms. In addition, before commencing or continuing a firearms business, each licensed dealer shall inventory the firearms possessed for such business and shall record same in the record required by this paragraph. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a firearm shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm. The sale or other disposition of a firearm shall be recorded by the licensed dealer not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a nonlicensee, the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, obtained by the licensed dealer shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from the licensee's Form 4473 file and be readily available for inspection. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensed dealer, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, or the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, serial number if the licensed dealer transferring the firearm serially numbers the Forms 4473 and files them numerically.
[Details about required format of bound book omitted]
Might I suggest that you do business with your local dealer whenever possible, and not just darken the door when you want a favor. If you deal fairly with your LGS, chances are they will deal fairly with you. If you are generally obnoxious and make it clear that you consider the dealer is out to get you, lotsa luck in asking him to do your shipping for you.
Considering NON FFL's must submit their packages at UPS or FED Hub not UPS store or Kinkos...
I've been shipping handguns back to manufacturers from my local Kinko's - FedEx shop. And the bill has been around $15 if I remember correctly, to include insurance. I did not send the fastest method, however.
The return from Kel-Tec cost me $21.21 (from Springfield it was free due to a recall) and I had to pick up both guns at the FedEx warehouse / shipping center. That was because I was not home to sign for them.
Damn near painless, folks. But then, I do not live in Massachusetts and am not scared to death of the onerous gun laws. Sorry Mastrogiacomo, just calling it like I see it.
Bart Noir
Firearms
Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S.or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
Carrier cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.
Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The outside of the package(s) must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package(s) contains a firearm.
The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
While you "can" have multiple guns on one form, it's really easier in some ways for the dealer to do one for each firearm.Does your gunsmith have you do a 4473 for every gun?
Kinkos? Where have you been the last ten years?WVsig ......Also by using Kinkos you are using a 3rd party shipper not shipping directly which IIRC is also a violation of FedExs rules.
Name one of those ways it makes it easier.SnyperQuote:
Does your gunsmith have you do a 4473 for every gun?
While you "can" have multiple guns on one form, it's really easier in some ways for the dealer to do one for each firearm.
FedEx bought Kinkos in 2004 and renamed it FedEx Kinkos and in 2008 it became FedEx Office............and ALL are company owned, not a one is considered a "3rd party shipper".
No kidding.WVsigQuote:
FedEx bought Kinkos in 2004 and renamed it FedEx Kinkos and in 2008 it became FedEx Office............and ALL are company owned, not a one is considered a "3rd party shipper".
If that is the case still does not change the fact he is not disclosing to the FedEx employee that he is shipping a firearm/handgun because they are not shipping it overnight for $15.
Really?DPris Nor does it change the fact that those side-stores are prohibited by FedEx policy from shipping firearms.
Denis
Firearms
A.FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
1.Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
2.Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
B.If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.
C.Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
D.Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.
E.The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
F.The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
G.FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
does not change the fact he is not disclosing to the FedEx employee
Failure to notify the common carrier is only illegal if you are shipping interstate to a nonlicensee. It is not illegal to ship to a licensed dealer without disclosing the contents.Bart NoirLet me assure you that I fully disclosed to FedEx that I was shipping handguns. To do otherwise would be slightly illegal, I believe, and some of you are actually accusing me of that. Harrummph!Quote:
does not change the fact he is not disclosing to the FedEx employee
Please understand that no UPS or FedEx employee can change or alter their shipping tariff........even if he says "Oh, it's okay we ship handguns Ground all the time!". While that's cheaper, if lost, stolen or damaged you wll get nothing on a claim. Why? Because the tariff says so.In fact, one employee helped to be re-wrap one of the pistols as my wrapping caused too much rattling around inside the box.
I thought an FFL didn't have to log in a firearm unless it was going to be in his possession overnight. They can't skip logging it in if you drop it off at noon and the FFL takes it to the post office at 4:00 p.m.?
If the gun is stolen, and you need a copy of a 4473 for proof of ownership. it's easier to find if it's the only one on the formName one of those ways it makes it easier.