Sentry fire safe, why can't it be a gun safe?

S

shamus005

New member
I saw a sentry fire safe at wal mart that world be just the right size for me. I don't need, and can't afford a $3000 dollar fort knox-type of fire safe. For my needs I need something smaller and the Sentry fire safe (1.2 cubit feet) would suit me just fine.

It has the same fire rating as an "official" fire gun safe, why can't I use this safe for my firearms?
 
I keep ammo and handguns in a Sentry Fire Safe - along with important documents. I feel as confident with it as I would a fire-retardant gun safe.
 
I have a fire proof, flood proof Sentry safe. The problem I am having is how to secure the thing, without losing the water/fire proof properties. :confused:
 
No reason why you cannot

They are pretty fireproof

But the ones I have seen do not appear to be as secure from theft
 
There are a few reasons you should not use a Sentry fire safe (and other document safes) for storing weapons.

First and foremost, gun safes and document safes have little in common. The insulation used to protect against fire is different. Document safes use a moisture rich insulation designed to bake off in a fire. This generates steam inside of the safe, which keeps the contents protected. This same moisture rich insulation causes a high humidity level within the safe, and will rust firearms. Sentry specifically mentions this in their owners manual.

Most gun safes use gypsum board for insulation. This has a much lower moisture content which protects the guns, but is not nearly as effective against a fire. The Sentry is a UL rated fire safe. There is currently no gun safe on the market which passes the UL test for fire. Most independant testing is not worth the paper it is written on. It is surely not acceptable to insurance companies that require specific ratings.

The second major reason is that the Sentry safes do not meet legal standards for safe gun storage. This is especially true in California with the CA DOJ storage requirements.

There are certain types of safes that are smaller than typical gun safes, and suitable for pistol storage. These include steel plate safes (no insulation), small gun type safes (gypsum board insulation), or composite safes (burglary and fire protection). Most of the time, these types of safes will not be available through your local sporting goods store or big box retailer. You'll have to speak with somebody in the safe business.
 
a1abdj,

I understand about how if there is a fire the moisture rich environment of a document safe will be bad for my gun.

If there is no fire, will a document safe be a fine place to lock up a gun if nothing else is available? Or will it be more moist in a document safe all the time, not only in times of fire? Basically can a document safe be used safely as a non fire lock box for guns, or will they rust in there?
 
From what I've seen with document safes, the cheaper they are, the more humid they are inside. The higher end fire safes tend to use better designed insulations.

If you'll notice on the Sentry document safes, the interiors are made of plastic. This isn't strictly a cost issue. The older Sentry safes with steel interiors often rusted. Another forum member on another gun forum put his cigar hygrometer in a Sentry safe over night. The hygrometer reported 80% humidity levels (firearms should be stored in the 30% to 40% range).

These types of insulations tend to keep the interior of the safe moist at all times. If you do not open the safe on a regular basis to let the safe air out, you will often notice a musty smell, especially on paperwork.

If you must store moisture sensitive items inside of a document safe (firearms, coins, stamps, etc.), then you should store them in a microwave safe tupperware style container.

This does not apply to all Sentry products. Sentry offers a wide variety of safes which could be used to store firearms. This advice is solely for the UL rated document safes that they sell. I should also add that the locks on these cheaper document safes are nothing more than privacy locks. You will get very little burglary protection from this type of safe.
 
Many document fire safes, including my Sentry, can be pried open with a screwdriver. You can't pry open my gun safe, anything that will fit in the door gap will bend. My document safe cannot be bolted to the floor, my gun safe is. I can pick the lock on my document safe is a couple seconds (used to do locksmithing when I was a kid). I couldn't pick the key lock on my gun safe (it's an electronic lock with a backup key).

There are lots of documents I want safe from fire, like my insurance policies, my marriage license, my will, etc. The stuff I want safe from theft is is the gun safe (with the rattlesnake :D ).

One of the most street smart guys I ever met (he might have been the toughest old coot I ever knew) used to say, "locks are for honest people".
 
Listen to a1abdj. I have lost count of the Sentry fire safes AND Sentry gun safes I have had to open because they failed internally. Sorry to offend anyone, but they are JUNK! With Sentry you truly get what you pay for. Here at the local gun show I have seen Liberty gunsafes for under $700.00.

It is every gun owners responsibilty to secure and keep safe their firearms. Put off buying that next gun and get a good quality safe that can be bolted down and is made in the US.
 
I use two Sentry safes.

I have them side by side in the utility room. They are more than enough to deter the common thief and did not cost an arm and a leg. I have them lag bolted to both the concrete floor and the foundation wall.

On this very board we did alot of checking into safe qualities awhile back and after talking to firemen, calling manufacturers, and even speaking to a rep at Underwriter Labs I was unable to find enough of a difference to make it worth all the extra money.

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a1abdj is 100% correct. I made the mistake of using a document safe for some hand guns. I now have surface rust on some nice guns. They retain moisture. Like a dope, I never asked why you should not use them for guns. In the instructions they tell you "not for use with guns".

If you must use one temporarily, I would recommend using large amounts of desiccant and recharging/replacing them often.

You are a wiser man than I for just asking!
 
a1abdj is 100% correct. I made the mistake of using a document safe for some hand guns. I now have surface rust on some nice guns. They retain moisture. Like a dope, I never asked why you should not use them for guns. In the instructions they tell you "not for use with guns".
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I think the original poster needs to clarify which model of Sentry safe of which he is speaking. Many of the Sentry safes list firearms and their intended usage.
 
Playboy, the model you have is prone to failure. I have opened several. There is a BIG difference. And what the heck do firemen know about gunsafes? Not trying to give you a hard time. People never listen and learn the hard way. And of course foks get pissed at me when I tell them how much it's going to cost to get the safe open. It ain't worth the headache. Buy American made safes.
 
I've got a Sentry document safe in the basement primarily for storing papers. I put two 40gram dessicant canisters in it and stored one handgun inside for a year with no problem. Now I have a full-size gunsafe with a pair of Remington 365 mini-dehumidifiers. Both seem to work well, but I like the Remington dehumifiers much better because you cand just plug them into an outlet to recharge rather than having heat up the oven.
 
I bought the fireproof/floodproof Sentry safe from Walmart that was previously mentioned. After a quick inspection, I quickly threw away any hopes that it was actually floodproof. Once I was over that, I decided to drill some holes in it to bolt it to the floor.

Document safes use a moisture rich insulation designed to bake off in a fire. This generates steam inside of the safe, which keeps the contents protected
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When I drilled through the safe, there was this very moist material that clogged up my drill bits...almost like clay. Now it makes sense as to why all this stuff is sandwiched between the steel layers (which were alarmingly thin BTW).

After my first hand disection, I wouldn't dare store anything in there that would corrode. Just a thought.
 
And what the heck do firemen know about gunsafes?
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They know first hand the survival rate of so called "fire safes". All the research I did was unable to find anyone that claimed a safe would actually survive a fire to the degree they are rated. Firemen and a friend that is an arson/fire inspector says none will survive a direct fire for anywhere near what they are rated.

A call to UL (which rates the safes) revealed that they do not actually test the safes. The just certify the information given to them by the manufacturer.

As for failures, thousands of openings so far and no issues. I have one Sentry safe I have had for many years and no issues. If they ever did fail I would just cut them open and not be out much money.
 
I have a cheap all metal sentry safe, it is not fireproof.

it comes with key and combo lock. it fits 6 handguns easy. got two shelves.

99 dollars.

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They know first hand the survival rate of so called "fire safes". All the research I did was unable to find anyone that claimed a safe would actually survive a fire to the degree they are rated. Firemen and a friend that is an arson/fire inspector says none will survive a direct fire for anywhere near what they are rated.
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I have many photos taken by fellow safe techs which show burned safes. We are often called out immediately after a fire to open and recover the contents of safes which often have the dials and handles melted off.

Safes rated by UL and other recognized agencies do often protect their contents. The items inside may not survived in pristine condition in all cases, but they do typically survive.

Gun safes that have been tested by unrecognized agencies often do no protect their contents. In many cases, it's a complete loss.

A call to UL (which rates the safes) revealed that they do not actually test the safes. The just certify the information given to them by the manufacturer.
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I don't think the person you spoke with at UL knows what they are talking about.

All fire rated safes must undergo a furnace test, a drop test, and an explosion (from steam) test. After the initial testing is done, the safe manufacturer must allow random inspections of their facilities by UL representatives to insure all of the safes being produced are identical to the safe submitted for testing.

As for failures, thousands of openings so far and no issues. I have one Sentry safe I have had for many years and no issues. If they ever did fail I would just cut them open and not be out much money.
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Inexpensive products are built with inexpensive parts. In my experience, safes like Sentry, are much more prone to failure. I have also seen 20 year old Sentry products still in use.

I often charge more to deliver these types of safes than the safe cost. I also often charge more to open them than the safe cost. Sometimes cheap products don't end up being the bargain people thought they would be.
 
All fire rated safes must undergo a furnace test, a drop test, and an explosion (from steam) test. After the initial testing is done, the safe manufacturer must allow random inspections of their facilities by UL representatives to insure all of the safes being produced are identical to the safe submitted for testing.
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You would think that but it is not the case. UL is not legally required to actually perform the tests or validate the testing of any item that would not pose a threat to human life or pose a safety hazard. Therefore they often accept money for endorsing things such as safes without testing as long as the manufacterer provides a warranty for the product.

I spoke to several people at UL and they even referred me to their legal division which pointed me to the laws which stated pretty much what I just said.
Inexpensive products are built with inexpensive parts. In my experience, safes like Sentry, are much more prone to failure. I have also seen 20 year old Sentry products still in use
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You mean like all those inexpensive cars like Honda and Toyota that came from overseas in the 80's? Or those inexpensive eectronics like Sony, Toshiba, and others that came from overseas in the 80's also? Sometimes they are just cheaper because where they are made and the labor that makes them.
 
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