Semi auto Springfield 1903 . . . really.

P

Prof Young

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Just read an article in GUNS about the Pedersen Device that turned the Springfield 1903 from a bolt action to a semi-auto. How cool is that? Anyone know if you can still get these?

Live well, be safe.
Prof Young
 
I recall that there are something like a dozen (maybe fewer) Pedersen devices left in good condition in the market, and they generally cost somewhere around $50,000-80,000 when they do go up for sale. They also require .30 Pedersen ammo and ejector cuts on the receiver.

There are some people kicking around a similar device in a Mosin using .32 ACP ammo, but I don't know how far I see that project getting.
 
the pedersen device was never fielded in combat because they wanted instantaneous rollout. they didn't want to take the chance of the germans getting ahold of it and designing their own. by the time they had enough built, the war was over and the pedersens were eventually destroyed. the only ones that survived are all in museums. no civilian company ever built a replica and nobody ever came up with a 30 cal pistol round small enough to fit into the cutout slot on the 1903 MK1.
 
The Pedersen device was the product of Allied frustration and a theory of attack called "marching fire", a way seemingly contrived by generals to get as many of their own men killed as possible.

The idea was that soldiers would walk toward the enemy line, firing as they went "to keep their heads down" then shoot the enemy soldiers as they huddled in the trench.

It was a bad idea to begin with in the days of muzzle loading muskets; it was insane in an era of belt-fed machineguns. First, the enemy was well dug in, behind Maxim guns, and walking infantry was what we now call "a target rich environment." Second, the Pedersen device made the insanity even nuttier. An enemy might duck if he knows he is being shot at; but with the low noise and sub-sonic bullet of the PD, added to the noise of battle, the enemy would not even know anyone was firing at him. He would just continue feeding fresh belts into his MG.08 and mowing down the lines of attackers.

The solution ended up being the tank, plus the fact that German morale broke when the equally worn-out Allied forces were bolstered by fresh American troops.

It is unfortunate that more PD's were not saved; I would love to have one. But as a military weapon, the scrap heap was the proper place.

Jim
 
My daddy's deer rifle was an '03 with the Pedersen cut, the serial range Hatcher though were the best '03s owing to the "double heat treatment." His was around 1,1xx,xxx as I recall. He Bubbaized it himself, was actually quite proud of it, back in the days when nobody thought they had any real value. I think he came by it through the DCM, had a barrel dated 1942, shot very well.
 
IMHO the Pedersen Device was like the rifle grenade-a Great Idea that Didn't Work. W.H.B. Smith noted that there is a big difference between what a trained operator will do on a demonstration field and an ordinary soldier will do on the battlefield. What they really need was the submachine gun -John T. Thompson's "trench broom" and to a lesser extent the BAR. I wonder why more use wasn't made of the Lewis Gun.
 
I have one of the Mark I rifles which were not restricted but none of the PD parts. Makes a fine deer and other big game rifle.
 
There was a company in western Washington that was making noises about manufacturing a replica - Pedersens were also developed for the M1917 "Enfield" and Mosin Nagant - chambered for .32 ACP, IIRC.
That must have been twenty years ago. I was going to contact them, maybe go out there and have a look, but the story was pretty sketchy, even then.
I'm pretty certain nothing came of it.
Even ten-fifteen years ago, Sarco sold all of the necessary parts to restore an '03 Mark 1 to its original configuration, in kit form, but now they seem to have only two or three of the parts listed.
 
I was a bit hard on the Pedersen device. It could have been of service after a user reached the enemy trenches, but that does not seem to have been the rationale for its design and purchase. In any case, it reached the troops too late, and most were destroyed (ready for this?) "to keep them out of the wrong hands." Yep, that was the reason actually given for the destruction.

Think of the tragedy had Bonnie and Clyde gotten hold of Pedersen devices instead of BAR's!

Jim
 
I wonder why more use wasn't made of the Lewis Gun.
Click to expand...

Gen. Crozier and Isaac Newton Lewis were bitter enemies, and Crozier made a statement to the effect that no U.S. soldier would ever be armed with the Lewis gun. So, when the AEF reached France, the Lewis guns were taken from the U.S. soldiers and they were given the :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:"vastly superior":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Chauchat, courtesy of our buddies the French.

Or so the legend has it.
 
...and most were destroyed (ready for this?) "to keep them out of the wrong hands." Yep, that was the reason actually given for the destruction.
Click to expand...

Absolutely; Some Congressmen were heard saying that it was especially useful in keeping them out of the hands of "anarchists and Italians..."

Those very same elements were reiterated when the NFAs of '34 and '35 were enacted.
 
Apparently, even after they had been built, stored for years, and destroyed, the Pedersen was still "top secret".
Troops who were issued Mark 1s, didn't know what the hole in the receiver wall was for (ejection port), or what "Mark 1" signified.
 
Yep, gyvel. Same thing today except the gun control gang weasel words about rioters and terrorists. (No one dares say "Blacks" and "Moslems".) We are supposed to believe disarming our own citizens will solve all the problems of the world.)

Jim
 
In all of my travels I have only seen one in a museum and for the life of me I don’t remember where.
My 03 has the hole for the device (I was told).
 
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Its a Springfield armory Mark 1 SN:11661XX
The markings are
H S
an exploding bomb
10 44

P.S. When I purchased the gun over 30 years ago the gun shop that had it said that it was the release port incase the gun had a ruptured case.
Even back then I wasn't that stupid.

I looked for one for sale and had no luck but some one has what appears to be a perfect looking box of 40 rounds for 100$
The last one I can find that sold with a rifle all in very good shape was $49,000 in 2013

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_device

Another good article with good photos and the inventor.
http://www.guns.com/2013/06/22/perishings-super-weapon-the-pedersen-device/

http://rockislandauction.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-pedersen-device.html
 
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My Dad's with the '42 barrel also had a receiver mounted peep, quite possible exactly the same one, and that same green tint to the Parker finish. I always had it in my head that it came through the old DCM. I can't ask him as he passed away in '75. I'm afraid I don't have mine anymore, since I went through a phase when I though all I needed were expensive rifles, and that certainly wasn't even in the '80s. I bet yours shoots very well.
 
The only problem with the concept of the Pedersen device being adopted for American marching fire across no man's land into enemy trenches....


Is that American tactical doctrine of World War I never really adopted the concept as the French and British did -- dressed lines of men marching bravely upright at a measured pace into the face of entrenched troops and emplaced machine guns.

It was intended primarily to increase the weight of fire (yes, troops tend to fire while on the move in hopes of keeping the enemy's head down, nice concept bit it had been shown to be a bit... lacking through the war) when American troops came into close contact engagement with the Germans and, hopefully, in the trenches where rapid fire would be a LOT more useful, and the small and lacking in power bullet would still be fairly effective.
 
Emcon5, thanks for sharing that. That would be one rare 03. I bet you could buy a very nice car for the value of that gun.
Also funny how much they added to make gun safe for the shooter.
 
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