Semi-auto rifle choices

B

barefoot

New member
I'm researching my first centerfire rifle purchase - I'll be getting a bonus this month, so I'll have a little change in my pocket. Anyways, I think my first rifle should be an all-rounder, good for plinking, paper-punching, reliable and durable, semi-auto for SD and/or SHTF, bigger than .223 in case I want to hunt game (or feral pigs), and not too expensive (under a grand).

Currently under consideration:
Mini-30 - there's one on the shelf at the local store, but it's $800+ (I'll check if there's a cash discount).
AK - I'd want a nice one, I think Arsenals are in the same ballbark as the Mini, right?
Saiga Sporter - these are ugly (not in a good way, like the AK) but a lot cheaper, and I suppose I could convert it later if so moved .... (oh, to ponder)

An AR-pattern gun is not on the list for a couple reasons: 1) I don't like the charging handle where it is and 2) its generally known as a bit more high-maintenance than the AKs and Minis, and the SHTF aspect calls for something more durable/reliable.

Later on, I'll probably compliment this rifle with something more focused - a bolt gun with more emphasis on accuracy/hunting, but now I'm looking for the all-rounder.

So - is there anything I'm overlooking?
 
In your price range the Saiga is the clear winner. A Saiga 308 with a 20" barrel will do everything you listed. While the 7.62x39 Saiga or AK will be cheaper to feed, it is a tad on the light side for hunting. If you are going to get a bolt gun for hunting anyways, then the 7.62x39 is a great option.

Full disclosure, I am on my second Saiga 308, I had the 16.25" barrel version that I didn't like so I traded up to the 20" version and am very happy. It sports a 6x42 Nimrod scope and shoots tight with my handloads.

Jimro
 
Are you opposed to a Browning BAR? Lots of calibers to choose from with those, but limited magazine capacity if that's a concern. FN and winchester have a mag fed semi-auto as well, but I have no personal experience with them.
By the way--That's a pretty ridiculous price for a mini! Several places I've checked sale them for $200-$300 cheaper than that.
 
The BAR - I know very little about those - they don't seem to be too common, can you direct me to some BAR-centric discussion? My impression is that they'll be on the high end of my budget, but hey... if it's a solid rifle, the Browning name may make it worth a little extra to me.

I remember that the same store with the hi-priced Mini also carries Saigas. I'll reconnoiter there this afternoon.
 
It sounds like to me that your original list of requirements is describing an M1 Garand, mail ordered direct from the CMP.

Plinking - Check
Extended range sessions may leave you a little sore, but you'll have a grin on your face that you can't wipe off.

Paper-Punching - Check
Most of them coming out of the CMP right now are 2-3 MOA shooters with surplus ammo, as good or better than an AK variant, or a Mini, and with infinitely better sights.

Reliable, Durable, capable of self defense or SHTF scenarios - Check
I'll let service through 2 major wars and numerous smaller conflicts speak for itself.

Larger than .223 - Definitely Check
The .30-06 is likely to take game you're liable to come across, and is more than enough for ANY pigs that you'll find, assuming you're using proper hunting bullets (research the whole commercial vs. Mil-Spec ammo issue before just going to buy any commercial hunting ammo, there are some very real potential issues)

Not to expensive - Check
Around $500 for a field grade, and $600 for a service grade. The current service grades are evidently some of the best seen in many years. Many are nearly new.

Plus, an M1 is a piece of history, built in America by real Americans at a time when durable goods meant DURABLE. It has intrinsic value and will appreciate over the years. Your great-grandkids will be fighting over the M1 long after you, and the Saiga, are gone. (Plus, best estimates put the remaining supply at enough for a few years, at best. When they're gone, there won't ever be any more. Get one while you can.)
 
Mr. White, your gun-fu is strong and persuasive! I've been wanting a CMP Garand, but I guess I thought of it as more of a collector piece than a shooter. Would a surplus M1 be more durable than a new Kalashnikov? (Even as I type this, I know the answer is that I need one of each! :D)

Incidentally, I did go by the toy, I mean gun store on the way home from the office. The Saiga in x39 was $469, felt light and comfortable. I think it would make a great choice if I do opt for a Russian gun. And the Mini-14s they had (no -30s) were all $750+. I think that's really high, but they must be selling them, so I can't say much.

They did have what I think are pretty good deals - some used Ruger P94 and 95 pistols for around $300. (one was like 279) And they have KelTec Sub2000s in stock (taking G17 mags) for $369 ... I've had an interest in both of these items before, so I know those prices are fair-to-good. (this is at Powderhorn in SA, if anyone is interested)
 
Made a typo, was supposed to say "buy."

On average, 30-06 will probably cost 3 times as much as 7.62x39. If the x39 meets all of your criteria (and it seems to), guess you should think about whether or not the additional capabilities of the 06 will be worth spending 3x the money on. For some people, the answer would be a yes, but it's definitely a rare thing to have someone suggest 30-06 as a plinking round!

As far as durability goes... assuming care is taken (and AK's are known to be pretty tolerant of neglect)... there's really no reason to believe an M1 would be the least bit more durable an an AK-type. Simple fact.

On top of that, if you ever do decide to hunt feral pigs, keep in mind the M1 weighs in at 10-11 pounds compared to 7 to 8 for most 7.62x39 AK variants, naturally an AK-type like a Saiga will also be much smaller and handier.

As far as Mini-30's go, I'd be careful about those. Reports are they don't play well with cheap steel-cased ammo, and (though I am not certain about this portion) but Ruger actually recommends against using steel-cased ammo in the Mini-30. This defeats one of the big advantages of getting a 7.62x39 rifle.
 
oooooh.... yeah, after a quick check, most 30-06 is a buck a round or more. I'm sure deals can be had - and I still want one, but I remember now that this is one reason I thought of a Garand as more of a collector piece.

Or ... a good excuse to get into reloading.
 
I had a Mini-Thirty and sold it. The brass ammo is just too expensive for a plinker, and even with the extra power Wolff spring, it wouldn't ignite 1:3 of any steel cased brand. If I were you, I'd go with an AK. Mine would easily do minute-of-pig at 150, and it was about as cheap as they come. Century Arms International. That being said, if you want a good semi-auto plinker bigger than .223, try a pistol caliber carbine. It would do pigs up close and you can shoot the cheaper pistol ammo out of it for the paper punching and plinking. Honestly, though, you can't get everything perfect in one rifle. That's why most of us have more than one. You might look at that M-1 and add a .22 to it for the plinking, paper punching, and small game activity.
 
I can't see what the appeal of an AK is. And I can't see the appeal of an AR/M4.

There are sooooo many really good rifles out there.
 
With 30-06 in a Garand you have to use ammo made for the Garand that is lower pressure (like what American Eagle makes for garands) and it's expensive as balls. Commercial ammo can often damage your op rod. Or just get ball ammo from teh CMP in which case it is expensive still, takes forever to show up, and is FMJ and not legal for hunting nor advisable. If you reload, the Garand is awesome these days still. If not, well good luck finding funds to feed that beast.



AKs are very good guns. While crude, they can be made to do most of what an AR can do. IMO, a good SGL-21 from Atlantic Arms is a fine choice. Plenty of 7.62x39mm hunting ammo available (ballistics pretty much the same as 30-30 Winchester) and lots of cheap stuff for practice like Yugo M67 (which I recommend saving as it's basically the BEST x39 ammo when used through human tissue:))



Mini-14s and the like are expensive, not accurate, and are basically a fudd's gun. AR or AK are way better. If you don't understand the appeal of an AK or AR then you just haven't used one or are some stubborn fudd. Idk.:confused:
 
I've got a couple Saiga's a 762x39 & 308 have several thousand rounds in both with no problems yet The 308 does like the silver bear ammo the lighter the better'& they are a lot of fun good luck
 
I had fun with my Saiga conversion, but after a while it just became obvious that reloading for the x39 caliber was futile. Sold it and got an AR.
 
Also, if you really do feel like you do need more oomph than 7.62x39... you can get an FPK or PSL. It's an AK chambered for 7.62x54R, which can do just about anything the 30-06 can, but still at fraction of the price, thanks to cheap and widely available military surplus ammo.
 
Buying ammo from the CMP isn't THAT bad, though .30-06 is going to cost you more than 7.62x39 or x54.

I admit to reloading, so sometimes I forget to take ammo costs into consideration when making suggestions.

In my mind, the Mini's are great guns, just not at $750. Likewise AK variants at $450-500. Prices got out of whack three years ago and have stayed there, but that's an issue for another thread.

I know it's heavier, and louder, and more expensive to feed, and more picky about it's ammo, but I still challenge anyone to pick up a Garand and shoot it and come away unimpressed.
 
Just to throw another 7.62 x 39 rifle into the mix, you might consider an SKS. Between the AK and SKS, I actually prefer the ergos of the SKS better. And you typical SKS is often a bit more accurate than your typical lower end AK. And they do have an extra 4" of barrel, so shot-for-shot they are a bit more potent. SKS prices are kinda like Mini-14 prices; they are all over the map. These days, a fair price for an SKS in my area is $375 or so.

An AR-pattern gun is not on the list for a couple reasons: 1) I don't like the charging handle where it is and 2) its generally known as a bit more high-maintenance than the AKs and Minis, and the SHTF aspect calls for something more durable/reliable.
Click to expand...

If the charging handle is a deal breaker, I understand that. No gun's ergos are going to be desireable for everyone. However, in fairness a quality AR with good magazines (the most common reliability problem culprit) is plenty reliable.
 
fudd lover

If it must be a semi, here's a vote for the Mini-30, just not at 8 bills plus.

Suitably powerful, ammo is widely available in an array of types and prices. They say the new Mini's are much better in terms of accuracy. I have not been that disappointed in my older one, at 2-3 MOA. Easily scoped. Ruger now has a factory hi cap mag if you feel the need. Made here w/ a great company behind it. Fair trigger, mine does anyhow. Not to big to tote all day.

Ruger sells a ton of em, must be a lot of fudds out there, including me!
 
I'm leaning more and more towards an Arsenal AK. The Saiga makes a lot of sense, but I'll eventually want an AK anyways (if only to thumb my nose at those who assert that it's 'evil') and I think the prices of good AKs will be going up for a while.
There was one vendor at the gun show this weekend who stocks them - I may visit his store soon.
 
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