Cheapshooter
New member
Not looking to argue. Just stating a 9MM bang is a 9MM bang weather it comes out of a semi-auto, or revolver. Making sound level a mute point as an advantage out of a wheel gun.
Semi-auto Caliber Revolvers
- Thread starter BigMikey76
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BigMikey76
New member
Perhaps I was not clear. I wasn't saying that 9mm will change volume and be quieter in a revolver, just that it is typically not as loud as .357.
As long as we're considering rimless cartridges for a revolver, I'm a BIG fan of the .30 Carbine Blackhawk. And yes, I'm aware of its reputation for a dramatic muzzle flash/blast BUT this is VERY often exaggerated.
Still I reload for both my .30 Carbine and .357 Blackhawks using pretty much the same ingredients: hard cast (BHN 22), gas checked bullets or Berry's plated bullets, Hodgdon H110 powder (14-15 gr.), CCI magnum small rifle primers, and Starline brass. Both are exceptional performers.
Still I reload for both my .30 Carbine and .357 Blackhawks using pretty much the same ingredients: hard cast (BHN 22), gas checked bullets or Berry's plated bullets, Hodgdon H110 powder (14-15 gr.), CCI magnum small rifle primers, and Starline brass. Both are exceptional performers.
Cosmodragoon
New member
I prefer auto cartridges in auto guns and I don't really like shooting short cartridges in long chambers. That doesn't mean I don't see the appeal. It also hasn't stopped me from wondering about a GP100 rechambered to take 10mm/.40 S&W... Of course, that's a few out on my wish list...
hammie, that won't happen because the cylinder isn't tapered. Before it starts to slide the pressure will have compressed it to the steel, held it in place, and bounced it back, so to speak. If cylinder and cartridge were both tapered, that might cause it to catch, much like the remington jet did when fired in revolvers, but the straight walled cylinder won't let any thing stick.
Cheapshooter
New member
Obviously spoken by someone who has never enjoyed the relaxing, and rewarding past time of reloading.
@Briandg: I appreciate your insight, but I think the 9mm parabellum is significantly tapered and of course the cylinder is tapered to match. I dunno. Maybe the moon clips or extractors (as in the charter arms revolver), keep the cartridge from backing out. Although, I would think that moon clips work better at keeping a cartridge from going in and not so much from going out. I figured S&W designed the model 547 with a retaining pin for a purpose.
For that reason, I've always shied away from 9mm revolvers. A short while back, the smith and wesson performance center was making revolvers chambered for 38 super, and at the time I thought that might be a better option from a functional standpoint if oyou wanted a 9mm caliber revolver (and if you could live with the ammunition availability issues with the 38 super). I have a S&W 625 chambered for .45 ACP and it works fine with the straighter walled cartridge.
For that reason, I've always shied away from 9mm revolvers. A short while back, the smith and wesson performance center was making revolvers chambered for 38 super, and at the time I thought that might be a better option from a functional standpoint if oyou wanted a 9mm caliber revolver (and if you could live with the ammunition availability issues with the 38 super). I have a S&W 625 chambered for .45 ACP and it works fine with the straighter walled cartridge.
Hammie, you're worried about nothing. Again, just take a look at the .22 remington jet, a revolver cartridge. the center cartridge is the jet, and look at that bottle neck. It worked in revolvers, and only caused trouble if they were loaded wrong or were greasy.
From wikipedia:
You tube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EImgR5wA370
From wikipedia:
You tube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EImgR5wA370
Bob Wright
New member
The problem I have with moon clips is that I have to pull the base pin and remove the cylinder to load 'em.
Nope. Just not that practical.
Bob Wright
Nope. Just not that practical.
Bob Wright
My sole convertible is my Old Model Ruger Blackhawk .357/9MM. No problems with ejection. There is the matter of the slight differences in bore diameter-357 vs .355, using lead bullets haven't seen any real problem with accuracy.
Half/Full Moon clips ? Sort of like a speedloader, you need to practice with them.
Half/Full Moon clips ? Sort of like a speedloader, you need to practice with them.
My personal experience with moon clips was with a s&w model 25-2 in .45acp about 10 yrs ago / and now with a pair of s&w model 627's in .357 mag.......moon clips for .45acp were a pain and time consuming to load 10 yrs ago, so I sold the 25-2 -- and while I did reload some .45 auto rim, i lost interest in the gun, in favor of other N frames in .44 mag and . 357 mag....
When I purchased the pair of performance center 627's earlier this yr ( a 2 5/8" and a 5" )...both 8 shot N frames in .357 mag .....the guns came with a set of moon clips--- and I think I ran each gun with about 40 Rds using the moon clips to speed reloads them, and all the aggravation of removing cases from the clips and reloading them without bending them came back to me......so I threw the moon clips away and bought a couple of 5 Star speed loaders - which meet my needs much better !
Moon clips are a great concept....but to me, they just were not worth it.
I have a buddy that used to shoot revolver competitions with a model 25 and moon clips....but a slightly bent moon clip jammed his gun and cost him a match.....and while he loves the gun, he now shoots .45 auto rim in it exclusively.....and I would not trust moon clips for any defensive gun.
I have seen a few Chiappa Rhino's at my local range and owners seemed to have trigger issues and firing pin or spring issues ( and maybe some moon clip issues )....but that range also had 2 of them in rental case and they had a lot of failures and got rid of them. I think their track record as a mfg is a little spotty...
Personally, I would suggest a revolver in .357 mag / .38 spl ...like in a K, L, or N frame S&W would be a much better investment...I will once in a while carry a model 19 or 66 in a 2 1/2" or a 4"......and I did carry the N frame 627 in 2 5/8" a month or so ago in a good IWB Horsehide holster.... and some extra rounds in a speed strip / but I feel fine with 6 ( or 8 Rds) in the gun.
I understand the noise discussion....but in the 1 in a gazillion chance you fire the gun for defense, without ear protection in .357 mag.....noise or some hearing issues would not be one of the first 100 concerns on my mind....../ I am very comfortable carrying my .357 mag revolvers with 158gr JHP's
Some of the old model 25's and I don't know which engineering revisions were made with head spacing that allowed you to fire a .45acp cartridge without the moon clips - but you would need a pencil with an eraser on it, or something, to punch the spent cases out of cylinder...but I know not all of the model 25's would fire without moon clips / I understand the new model 625's will fire without moon clips but extractor still only works with moon clips in .45acp....
When I purchased the pair of performance center 627's earlier this yr ( a 2 5/8" and a 5" )...both 8 shot N frames in .357 mag .....the guns came with a set of moon clips--- and I think I ran each gun with about 40 Rds using the moon clips to speed reloads them, and all the aggravation of removing cases from the clips and reloading them without bending them came back to me......so I threw the moon clips away and bought a couple of 5 Star speed loaders - which meet my needs much better !
Moon clips are a great concept....but to me, they just were not worth it.
I have a buddy that used to shoot revolver competitions with a model 25 and moon clips....but a slightly bent moon clip jammed his gun and cost him a match.....and while he loves the gun, he now shoots .45 auto rim in it exclusively.....and I would not trust moon clips for any defensive gun.
I have seen a few Chiappa Rhino's at my local range and owners seemed to have trigger issues and firing pin or spring issues ( and maybe some moon clip issues )....but that range also had 2 of them in rental case and they had a lot of failures and got rid of them. I think their track record as a mfg is a little spotty...
Personally, I would suggest a revolver in .357 mag / .38 spl ...like in a K, L, or N frame S&W would be a much better investment...I will once in a while carry a model 19 or 66 in a 2 1/2" or a 4"......and I did carry the N frame 627 in 2 5/8" a month or so ago in a good IWB Horsehide holster.... and some extra rounds in a speed strip / but I feel fine with 6 ( or 8 Rds) in the gun.
I understand the noise discussion....but in the 1 in a gazillion chance you fire the gun for defense, without ear protection in .357 mag.....noise or some hearing issues would not be one of the first 100 concerns on my mind....../ I am very comfortable carrying my .357 mag revolvers with 158gr JHP's
Some of the old model 25's and I don't know which engineering revisions were made with head spacing that allowed you to fire a .45acp cartridge without the moon clips - but you would need a pencil with an eraser on it, or something, to punch the spent cases out of cylinder...but I know not all of the model 25's would fire without moon clips / I understand the new model 625's will fire without moon clips but extractor still only works with moon clips in .45acp....
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Bob Wright
New member
My ruger is very modern, finest steel available, investment cast frame, proofed for the use of smokeless powder, made in the last twenty years or so. Coil spring construction, frame mounted firing pin, transfer bar action.
Not sure if you're kidding or not. The primary reason for moon clips with rimless ammo to facilitate ejection, the ejector pushes on the moon clip since it there isn't any rim on the case for it to push against. Single actions that are chambered for rimless calibers don't use them because the cartridges headspace on the case mouths and you have an ejector rod that pushes the individual empty case out from the center of the case.
The .002" difference between the bore and the 9mm projectile sounds like it would be an issue in discussion but in practice it really doesn't mean anything. I saw no appreciable difference in accuracy between 9mm and .38spl through my 360J and there are a number of people on the S&W forum that have done similar conversions on other models with the same results.
Rumor has been floating around for decades that S&W used the same barrels in their 940s and 547s that they did in the .38/.357 versions, just used different rollmarks.
Master Blaster
New member
Yesterday I took my 25-2 to the range put 80 rounds of.45 acp ammo through it without using a moon clip. The gun takes them but it is too much work to load and unload them for a fun range session. I just pull the empties with my index finger and thumb. I was shooting 200 LSWC with 4.8 grains of Bullseye.
I shoot the same load out of my .45 1911's and my Glock 30 for range practice.
The 25-2 shoots this load very accurately. I enjoy shooting .45 acp in my Ruger Blackhawk as well. I own a couple other N frame .45 acp revolvers and I enjoy shooting all of them. I have moon clips and a homemade loading tool, but I seldom bother with the clips unless I am taking a newbie shooting and want to demonstrate moon clips or if I do shoot a steel plate match and need quick reloads.
The advantage of .45 acp is it's fun to shoot and accurate and I load a lot of it and buy the bullets in bulk. I also have a .357 mag S&W 627 it takes 8 shot moon clips, but again I seldom use them for fun range sessions.
Any of these guns is suitable for home defense and the moon clips would be useful for that purpose.
If you like 9 mm and want a revolver in it go for it. It is not necessary to have a practicality argument with folks here. Most of us buy guns because we like them...
I shoot the same load out of my .45 1911's and my Glock 30 for range practice.
The 25-2 shoots this load very accurately. I enjoy shooting .45 acp in my Ruger Blackhawk as well. I own a couple other N frame .45 acp revolvers and I enjoy shooting all of them. I have moon clips and a homemade loading tool, but I seldom bother with the clips unless I am taking a newbie shooting and want to demonstrate moon clips or if I do shoot a steel plate match and need quick reloads.
The advantage of .45 acp is it's fun to shoot and accurate and I load a lot of it and buy the bullets in bulk. I also have a .357 mag S&W 627 it takes 8 shot moon clips, but again I seldom use them for fun range sessions.
Any of these guns is suitable for home defense and the moon clips would be useful for that purpose.
If you like 9 mm and want a revolver in it go for it. It is not necessary to have a practicality argument with folks here. Most of us buy guns because we like them...