'Semi-auto Battle Handgun Impairment' hardware vs. software

I think there are some legitimate problems with the new Glocks - not major problems but there are problems concerning springs and extractors.

Glock seems to be working to fix them, if someone is impatient the problem can be fixed with quality after-market parts. I think Glock eventually will get them completely fixed.

I think most of the problems that are reported with Glocks happen after people modify the heck out of them. Drop-in barrel, trigger kit, titanium striker etc, etc..
 
my last resort would be a glock or a berretta, I've had bad experiences with jams and safety issues. My local gun store wont even sell glocks, used or new. ill stick to a colt springfield, para 1911, or a 45 or 357 revolver.
 
A LGD who won't sell Glocks?

They're used by the fricken FBI and just about every other fed agency and LEAs all across America.

I'm not a Glock fanatic but - that's the strangest thing I've heard
 
Make, model, and action are irrelevant and caliber barely relevant to the OP's question. Any gun you shoot well and is both reliable and accurate will suffice. That is why we have so many choices. A one answer fits all is a question only asked by those who have little experience with the wide world of variety. Your Desert Eagle in 50 AE , my Dan Wesson in 357 Mag and my brothers Ruger P94 in 9MM or my other brothers Colt Commander in 45 ACP. One is no better than the other if you discount all the niggling details like which one shoots the tightest group or whose bullets penetrates the most inches of ballistic gel. Is it reliable, do you shoot it well and will it do the job required. If the answer is yes the rest is what color do you like and how many boxes of ammo should you stock.
 
Wow - lots of interesting opinions and insight ... thanks to all who have shared their thoughts so far :).

TailGator - I will try to elaborate on the difference, so hopefully it will help shed some light on what I'm getting at :D.

Hardware reliability I have heard the great Massad Ayoob state something to the effect of "Some people would rather have 6 for sure than 15 maybe" with regards to the reliability of a revolver vs. that of an autoloading pistol.

Also, I have a friend who worked security and 'bounty hunter' type jobs. He had the opportunity to take a pistol course and the group loaded onto a bus to head out to the range. Upon arrival, the bus load of people are given a 'demonstration' of sorts... the two course instructors stand at what I assume is a tossing distance. Instructor 'one' takes an unloaded pistol, gives a slight upward toss, and with a baseball bat, bats the pistol to instructor 'two':eek:. Instructor 'two' then returns the pistol to instructor 'one' in the same fashion. They proceed to load the pistol and do a firing demonstration, and afterwards state "You don't have to use a Glock, but we have our reasons for using them." There is something to be said for a handgun that will shoot even if the hardware is abused or neglected.

Software reliability I have seen a few 'limp wrist tests' on the web, it is really an eye opener if you haven't seen a demo or witnessed the phenomenon for yourself. I have experienced a fail to fire with an autoloading pistol, many years ago, not sure which make but I do remember it was a polymer framed .40. The concern is this - even though the gun is going to stand up to horrendous abuse, will it still fire, providing that the shooter is able to provide the proper grip / hold? If and when the shooter becomes injured in a gunfight or altercation, are you 100% sure you will still be able to fire that pistol with the proper grip / hold so that it will cycle? In my observations and personal experiences, it seems the revolvers and SIG Sauer (P226 and similar) and 1911's are going to go 'bang' even if held the wrong way. There is something to be said for a handgun that will fire and cycle regardless of how you are holding it... your injury may not allow you to provide the proper grip.
 
Dont look for the better gun, look to become a better shooter. Obviously you want to have an excellent piece of equipment and should be proficient with it. That said I prefer my 1911 45ACP I got a S&W 5" right now and love it, I am also working on a Ed Brown Kobra Carry to well, Carry. I can only carry the 1911 on cooler days. Other than that its my trusty S&W 3913NL 9mm, it is excellent and easily concealed. However my 2nd choice would really be a BHP if not for the 1911.
 
I'm pretty much totally a revolver guy anymore... didn't start out that way...

but rather than brag about how good my revolvers are... I'll point out 2 auto failures or problems I see...

1911... I've been told the 1911 is "the most sworn for & sworn at gun ever made" in order to shoot one well ( I have a series 70 that is probably ( for me ) the hardest to shoot accurately auto I own... if your grip & trigger position are not "right" you can't shoot one accurately... to me that sounds like problems if your shooting hand were damaged, & you had to switch to oposite hand or shoot in bandages... :confused:

I just requalified for my carry permit, & one one my buddy's other friends ( actually 2 ) borrowed his baby eagle for range qualifying... my buddy has found that gun to be fool proof, & he regularly carrys it... on one of his buddies, the gun jammed every single shot... it was pretty appearent from watching, that the guy was limp wristing the gun... but that make a guy think about shooting that gun, even if it were yours, & your hand would get damaged, would you end up with a single shot semi auto ???

those revolvers... as I said, I used to shoot almost exclusively semi's, but after witnessing misfires of semi autos stored in my trucks arm rest in below zero weather, ( even when properly cold weather lubed / preped ) & since I started handloading... I've been shooting almost exclusively revolvers... now that I've been shooting single action revolvers both right & left handed for cowboy action, I'm quite confident I could shoot any of my good double action revolvers with either hand
 
The best target gun vs. the best carry gun vs. the best combat gun - not necessarily the same.. for me at least :D



TylerD45ACP - "Dont look for the better gun, look to become a better shooter." I agree with more focus on becoming a better shooter, however the choice of gun should depend on your application and SHTF ideals ;):).

Just me thinking out loud :rolleyes:
 
Absolutley, I just thought Id offer my 2 cents. Your right about picking it for its practical application as well. Get the firearm that suits your needs and you shoot well. I was just offering a bit of advice because I did the same thing when I first started shooting for SD. I kept focusing on what pistol to get than practice, practice, and practice somemore. I finally got both down :D.
 
Glocks have a propensity to go bang when not intended-maybe just wanting to prove they can. Berettas are reputed to allow unintended takedown while in operation(according to a combat veteran relative). I'm a fan of Rugers and have not found them to have either foible so will stay with them. The ones I have function 100% with every load I've put in them from light lead SWC to hot rocket JHP. The only time I saw one fail was when my daughter fired it and "limp wristed" it to the point of dropping the gun. It stovepiped on that occasion.
 
I appreciate your effort to clarify, Chadio, but my point was that you can often find both of the characteristics you are looking for in the same pistol. IOW, a pistol that is highly reliable in adverse conditions doesn't have to be difficult to shoot, and a pistol that is not sensitive to limp-wristing or other such problems resulting from incapacity of the shooter might well be highly reliable, too. Other correspondents have named some good examples.

If I have to choose one, I suppose I would choose reliability, because if the reliability of the primary handgun is poor, I stand a lot bigger chance of needing to deal with the issue of an incapacitating injury. The latter doesn't go into my handgun selection very much, to be honest.
 
Again, thanx for the replies - interesting insight ... I appreciate that :).

Re: the good examples -

I personally have held the Beretta 92F, love the way it feels, but haven't had the opportunity to fire one yet. The Glocks - again, have held one but haven't fired one. My personal experience is limited to the SIG Sauer that I own, the 1911's that I shot in the Navy, and some Ruger revolvers in .357 and .44 mag.

I do hope that none of us ever have to use our sidearm to take someone's life in defense of our own, or become injured in the act of doing so... but, I guess some of us gun guys wonder about the possibilities that we may face.
 
In terms of...

Reliability: Most pistols today have very good reliability. In terms of "combat" pistol choices, I'd probably select one of...
9mm - Browning High Power
9mm - S&W Model 39-2/439/539
9mm - Beretta 92FS

The BHP has the fat magazine and it has always performed well for me. Likewise, the Beretta 92FS sits low in the hand, runs all day, doesn't jam and it's accurate. The 39-series S&W's are lower capacity but they run all day, even dry. They're lighter than the others, very accurate and reliable as sin. A friend's daughter serving in the sand box couldn't hit diddily with the Beretta (M9). Her dad shipped her a Model 439 we'd found for her. She said it worked perfect for her and even worked "in dust bowl conditions" over there. Important as she's a heilo pilot and always kicking up sand.

In .45 ACP...
S&W 1911 or my 1911SC. The SC is lighter and much easier to carry.
Springfield 1911 "Loaded" Stainless. Ambi controls and solid reliability.
S&W 745 - I've fired one and always loved the way it handled.
Colt Mk IV Series 70 1911 - still "the one".

This list leans to the 1911 because of my biases and because the 1911 platform is well known and relatively simple to fix.

Software (Injury issues)
Worst case is an arm or hand injury that prevents you from using your strong hand. I know one person shot through the right forearm. Bullet brushed against a nerve and his strong hand went limp. No feeling in it for 2 weeks, then it slowly returned (but not to normal). Another was struck in the upper arm and forearm defending against attack with a baseball bat. Two hits and his whole arm was "numb" and difficult to control with any precision.

This means a gun that can easily be used with the weak hand. This implies ambidextrous controls.

Lesser injuries can impair performance and this can lead to FTE's or FTF's in many pistols. Depending on the severity of the injuries, you cannot expect any gun to function 100% perfectly. Fracture any small bone in your wrist and you'll get off only one shot with that hand.

After an accident some years ago, I found my strong arm would "fall asleep" if I slept on it wrong. Just one incident of waking up to a strange noise and not having function in the arm caused my nightstand gun to switch from a 9mm to a revolver.
 
I let my 5 year old son shoot my wifes Sig P238 he can get it to jam up about every 3-4th shot. He only shot 1 shot from my Coonan and said he was afraid of it so I cant say if it would fail or not, It did pass the single shot he fired but that is hardly conclusive.

My son loves to shoot my fathers 22 revolver though. The revolver does not care if you limp wrist.

I pick #2 buts its more because I like revolvers.
 
if i have a choice between a pistol that will function flawlessly whether i treat it perfectly or not and a pistol that will require me to treat it perfectly even if i can't shoot it perfectly

i'll go with #1 please

if a disaster goes down, i'd be more worried about my hands than my pistol

therefore, i'd be more likely to drop my pistol in a river instead of getting my arm broken by some rocks

since i'd be more willing to put my pistol through rough treatment than my appendages, i'd rather have a pistol that can stand up to rough treatment rather than less-than-optimal handling
 
if i have a choice between a pistol that will function flawlessly whether i treat it perfectly or not and a pistol that will require me to treat it perfectly even if i can't shoot it perfectly
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That's a false dilemma. The actual choice would be between several "rough use" pistols which can perform admirably under adverse conditions, one of which is going to handle "the best" for the shooter compared to the others.

It's always been amazing to me how some folks will inflict Glocks upon themselves while dropping lines of "I don't really like it but it works."

Lots and lots of duty pistols from reputable manufacturers "just work." Inevitably, some will "handle" better than will others.
 
That's a false dilemma. The actual choice would be between several "rough use" pistols which can perform admirably under adverse conditions, one of which is going to handle "the best" for the shooter compared to the others.

It's always been amazing to me how some folks will inflict Glocks upon themselves while dropping lines of "I don't really like it but it works."

Lots and lots of duty pistols from reputable manufacturers "just work." Inevitably, some will "handle" better than will others.
Click to expand...

from what i took from it, the dilemma is that one will work even if it's dirty but not if the operator is damaged and the other will work even if the operator is damaged but not as well if it's dirty

for me, and i think for most people, you're going to get your pistol dirty before you're going to break your hand
 
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