'Semi-auto Battle Handgun Impairment' hardware vs. software

C

chadio

New member
Ok folks, let's say you are using a handgun to defend your family / yourself / your property. Which do you think is most desirable and why???:

1) I want a sidearm / handgun that will perform flawlessly if I have to drag it through mud / sand / nuclear holocaust, I am reasonably sure I will still be able to hold and fire the gun properly so it will cycle without fail

2) I want a sidearm that, with reasonable treatment, will cycle rounds even if my ability to hold and fire the gun is impaired by altercation / injury to my arm(s) or hand(s)

Curious.... do you think a "better" gun will be defined as "defeating:"
1) "hardware" (gun) abuse, or
2) "software" (shooter) injury?
 
Get a Glock. It will fire no matter what abuse it has taken. Within reason of course. You could let your glock get drier than the surface of the moon and it will still go bang every time. Drop it in the mud, get it wet, etc... and it will fire. I don't think it would fire if it was full of sand though.
 
Two choices:

Beretta 92FS....9mm....15 rnd capacity....The Overall Best
Glock model 19....9mm....15 rnd capacity....Second Best

My opinion.
 
2) I want a sidearm that, with reasonable treatment, will cycle rounds even if my ability to hold and fire the gun is impaired by altercation / injury to my arm(s) or hand(s)
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Every Glock made is eliminated right there. "You're limp wristing it!" is another "innovation" that Glock introduced to the shooting world.:p
 
Beretta 92FS....9mm....15 rnd capacity....The Overall Best
Glock model 19....9mm....15 rnd capacity....Second Best
Click to expand...

I concur and I'm suprised the Glockies have rained down on you yet.
 
I go for reliability above all.

If one takes any pistol/revolver and is willing to put in the time and effort to learn to shoot it, the reliability is all that's left.

Somebody at one time, came up with a you-tube video about "limp wrisking" basically showing it was a myth.............except for the glock, for some reason it could be "limp wrested".

I'm a "show me" kind of a guy. (The "Dont try this at home" bit is a sure way to get me to try something".

Any way I got a hold over every Semi auto I could find, Gold Cup, 1911a1, S&W Sigma, PPK. Smith Model 52, Neighbor's Glock, Beretta 92, ....to name a few, there were others but I can't remember what, I owned or borrowed ever thing I could get hold of.

I held each gun by the grip. Griping them with only my thumb and middle finger, and fired at least two full clips through each. (had to tape down the grip safeties on the 1911s). The Glock was the only one I could get to jam.

I know Glock fans wont like this, I'm not asking anyone to take my word (or the guy who made the you-tube video). Just try it and see for yourself.

As I mentioned, I'm a firm believer in reliability when it comes to defensive handguns. I may in a panic situation, not take the time to get a proper grip.

Choose, but choose wisely, what ever you choose, remember the weakness link to every firearm is the shooter. Learn to shoot what ever you carry and practice constantly.
 
I'll take number two. I don't routinely drag my handguns through sand/mud/nuclear fallout, so torture tests showing that gun X can survive mud/sand/nuclear fallout better than gun Y mean little to me. On the other hand, the need to take a shot with a weak or injured hand is a much more real possibility and, as such, I want a gun with as little limp-wristing potential as possible.

Also, I don't buy that limp-wristing is a myth as I've seen it happen with more than one gun (Ruger P95 and CZ-75B for sure and likely with a Glock 36). When one shooter can consistently jam a gun but another shooter can immediately take the same gun and ammunition and fire several magazines without a hiccup, I don't know what else to blame but limp wristing.

Personally, I choose a DA revolver because they're impossible to limp-wrist.
 
1) I want a sidearm / handgun that will perform flawlessly if I have to drag it through mud / sand / nuclear holocaust, I am reasonably sure I will still be able to hold and fire the gun properly so it will cycle without fail

2) I want a sidearm that, with reasonable treatment, will cycle rounds even if my ability to hold and fire the gun is impaired by altercation / injury to my arm(s) or hand(s)
Click to expand...

Well, If I have #1, I will not need #2.

"Limp wristing" this is a fault in training, not a fault of weapon design.
 
"Limp wristing" this is a fault in training, not a fault of weapon design.
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I agree.

I actually tried to get my Glock to have the limp wristing failure due to that video on youtube. What I found was, the only way I could get my gun to have a problem, was to shoot it like he was holding it in the video (sideways), and when mine did, it was only one in three, not consistently, like the video.

If you hold the gun in your hand, more or less "normally", even with absolutely no grip, and with both the elbow and wrist loose and not in line, the gun fired for 4 full mags (68 rounds) without a failure. Interestingly enough, firing the same way, my Combat Commander, which I was using as a control of sorts, had a number of failures to fire due to the grip safety not being fully engaged. Keep that in mind if you carry a 1911 and might ever have to fire it with a "weak" grip.


As a side note here too, I was being a little more realistic in my test, and I was trying to hit a photo "people target" at the same time. When I held the gun "sideways", I was lucky to get a couple of hits on the paper. When I held it in a more "normal" fashion, even with absolutely "no grip", I still had good hits on target. Reality here for me is, I know that even if I were injured, the gun is still likely to function, and I'll still be able to hit what Im pointing the gun at.



As far as what gun is best, thats easy, its the one that you always carry and shoot. If you do so, you know its going to work, since youre always shooting it, and youre going to be good with it, for the same reason. Reliability isnt an issue, as you'll have weeded the problem guns out long ago.

Doesnt really matter "what" it is, as long as you like it and youre comfortable with it.
 
Thank you but, I think I will stay with my Wilson Combats!

guns1.jpg
 
Funny the things that make you feel old. I see a question like this and my mind run toward a revolver. I sometimes forget that revolvers don't work in the modern world.

My first choice would be a Ruger GP100 in 357 magnum.

Second choice would be a S&W stainless 357.

No mags to jam. No lever to flip. And I don't need to rack a slide. Try doing that with a busted hand.

I believe that if I need more than six rounds before I get to cover or my rifle, I won't need to worry about it much longer.
 
1) I want a sidearm / handgun that will perform flawlessly if I have to drag it through mud / sand / nuclear holocaust, I am reasonably sure I will still be able to hold and fire the gun properly so it will cycle without fail
Click to expand...

A lot can be said of the reliability of Glocks but for my money, H&K gets my vote. In fact, I have dragged it through the mud and sand and it has fired flawlessly. I am also happy to report that I have not had to test it in a nuclear holocaust. Actually once loaded an incorrect round in one of my H&K's (put a .380 in a 9mm gun) and it fired accurately without damage to the gun. Not recommended and I felt pretty stupid but was still impressed that it fired with the accuracy it did.

2) I want a sidearm that, with reasonable treatment, will cycle rounds even if my ability to hold and fire the gun is impaired by altercation / injury to my arm(s) or hand(s)
Click to expand...

I have never intentionally limp wristed a gun but I have let lots of different people fire my H&K's and some did not have the grip that they should have had. I guess that is pretty close to limp wristing...anyway, the pistol fired and cycled with no problems.

I cannot recall ever having a problem with any of my H&K's or my Glocks. However, if I ever needed a go-to gun for the conditions stated above, I would bet the bank on the H&K. That is my personal feelings based on experience with what I would term as two of the most reliable guns produced today.
 
I hate the way that Glocks feel,i don't like having no exposed hammer,and plastic on a pistol is an insult.With that out of the way, i would grab my G17 and run.They're dead simple to repair and mine always fire.
 
I know Glock fans wont like this, I'm not asking anyone to take my word (or the guy who made the you-tube video). Just try it and see for yourself.
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I don't doubt it. But the point to be made is you deliberately limp wristed it to happen. I have yet to "accidentally" limp wrist one of my Glocks during shooting. I'll never fire a gun with just my thumb and middle finger holding it. I'm sure I can do it if I try but this means nothing when it comes to reliablity. My Glocks are reliable, they have proven it.

Besides ... I've heard of other semi-autos which act the same way. When I bought my Walther PPK/s I was instructed by the salesman to shoot with a firm grip so I don't 'limp wrist' it and jam the action.

I don't count the possiblity of limp wristing against the reliability of the gun. The experienced shooter also has to be reliable with his/her gun of choice.
 
I hate the way that Glocks feel,i don't like having no exposed hammer,and plastic on a pistol is an insult.With that out of the way, i would grab my G17 and run.They're dead simple to repair and mine always fire.
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So what you are saying is, you don't want to jog the Boston marathon with the gun in your hand, and the gun is not supposed to be comfortable, just comforting.
 
I have yet to "accidentally" limp wrist one of my Glocks during shooting.
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I haven't either, but my daughter has. She had a few FTEs when she first picked up my Glock. She is an engineering major, so when I took a minute to explain how the mechanism needed resistance against which to work properly, she understood immediately and has not had another problem in hundreds of rounds over a dozen or so trips to the range.

I therefore cannot be convinced that limp wristing is never a cause of failures, but neither can I be convinced that it cannot be overcome. Your overall point that the shooter must do his/her part and not blame every malfunction on the pistol is well taken and absolutely valid.
 
My experience is that whenever anyone reports a failure in a Glock the brand defenders start screaming "Limp Wrister ! Limp Wrister!"

I've fired my 34 and 17L with a pretty casual one handed grip and never had a jam.

I've fired it almost dry - I didn't degrease it, but I wiped all of the oil off with a cloth from all areas, and it fired just fine.

I've gooped grease in them to the point where grease actually splatters on my shooting hand on the first shot, and they fire just fine.
 
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