Selling an unregistered handgun?

[brickeyee]

The 4473 has always hacked me off. It is essentially gun registration, they just make the dealers do the work. The ATF can come inspect a dealer's paperwork unannounced at any time. They had better have a 4473 for every gun that came from the distributor and is no longer in the store. They now know what you have.

The only thing they can track is form the manufacturer to a distributor to a dealer and then the first retail sale.

To even do this they need the make and serial number.

If the gun goes back to another FFL, or is sold privately, the trail ends.

If the FFL goes out of business 4473s less than 20 years old go to BATFE.
The dealers bound book goes to BATFE whenever the FFL is terminated.

BATFE is prohibited from computerizing the records they have.
they have top keep them as paper and search through them by hand.

 

[MLeake]

And based on recent events, we are all confident the BATFE always follows the letter of the law, in both spirit and verbiage.

 

[hermannr]

I have several (rifle/pistol/shotgun) weapons that have never been through the 4473 process...all totally legal, purchased or inherited prior to 1968.

I also have several weapons that have come through FFLs and were purchased after 1968. I don't worry about it, they are all legal.

I do not understand this concern about a weapon being stolen though. Personally, I would not purchase any weapon with a shady past.

FTF transactions are not necessarily shady. I know the history of every weapon I own, and could tell you from when they were manufactured, to when I took posession, who owned them, and how I came by posessing them myself...don't you?

 

[brickeyee]

And based on recent events, we are all confident the BATFE always follows the letter of the law, in both spirit and verbiage.

they would need to find money to do anything, and they are always whining they do not have enough...

 

[Webleymkv]

And based on recent events, we are all confident the BATFE always follows the letter of the law, in both spirit and verbiage.

When the NICS check is called in by the FFL, information about the gun make, model, caliber, serial number, etc. is not given. As a matter of fact, the only info I've ever heard an FFL give about the gun itself during a NICS call is whether it's a handgun or long gun. The only thing that the ATF can get from a NICS call is that person X bought either a handgun or long gun on date Y.

Also, even if they were computerizing info on gun purchases through some sort of illegal registration attempt, what are they going to be able to use that information for? Such activity is illegal and, as such, any evidence gained by it would almost certainly be inadmissable as evidence during a trial. To quote a recent movie, "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court." I would think that a judge would look at any evidence gained through a backdoor registration scheme by the ATF the same way he'd look at evidence gained through an illegal search (no warrant, no PC): inadmissable.

 

[MLeake]

WebleyMkV, that may be true, as far as admissibility in court goes.

In the event of a confiscation scheme, it probably wouldn't get your guns back, after the fact. I don't know how it would play out in civil court, as lawsuits against the Federal government don't tend to have high success rates.

The phone call may say handgun or long gun, but the 4473 has make, model, and SN.

 

[Webleymkv]

In the event of a confiscation scheme, it probably wouldn't get your guns back, after the fact. I don't know how it would play out in civil court, as lawsuits against the Federal government don't tend to have high success rates.

What type of confiscation scheme are we talking about here? If they're confiscating guns thay they believe are linked to another crime, again their "registration" is illegal so they have no case based on that alone.

Now, if we're talking about some sort of Orwellian Dianne Feinstien "turn them all in Mr. and Mrs. America" type of thing, well I think at that point we'd have bigger problems than ATF backdoor regristration. Thanks to NICS, the ATF would know that you'd bought a gun of some sort at one time or another and also that private-party sales are not uncommon. I very highly doubt that "No, Agent Jackboot, I've never bought a gun from a private individual" is going to keep them from serving their search warrant.

The phone call may say handgun or long gun, but the 4473 has make, model, and SN.

The 4473 stays with the FFL until he or she goes out of business. Unless a gun that I've bought winds up used in a crime, the 4473 is just one more piece of paper in a mountain of others. Again, even if the ATF is keeping a secret database based on 4473's, there really isn't much that they can do with that information by itself.