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Sell Kimber, buy Springfield Compact?
- Thread starter Daddycat
- Start date
Brian Bilby
New member
Rosanghal,
If your gun has a ramped barrel, those somethines will cause feed problems unless the ramp is properly angled and cut deep enough. para Ordnance guns have this probelm occasionally. Also the ported Compacts have problems as the slots reduce the slide mass to the point that they don't have enough to strip the rounds reliably.
Brian
If your gun has a ramped barrel, those somethines will cause feed problems unless the ramp is properly angled and cut deep enough. para Ordnance guns have this probelm occasionally. Also the ported Compacts have problems as the slots reduce the slide mass to the point that they don't have enough to strip the rounds reliably.
Brian
Brian
I know you know your way around a 1911. What do you think about the nicks on the frame's feed ramp?
How about the engaging slide stop? Any ideas or suggestions what maybe causing that?
I know it's like asking a doctor "what wrong it hurts when I do this?" over the internet and for him to tell me what exactly is wrong. But I was wondering if you have seen this before with the slide stops and what it maybe.
Thanks
Ross T.
[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited December 16, 1999).]
I know you know your way around a 1911. What do you think about the nicks on the frame's feed ramp?
How about the engaging slide stop? Any ideas or suggestions what maybe causing that?
I know it's like asking a doctor "what wrong it hurts when I do this?" over the internet and for him to tell me what exactly is wrong. But I was wondering if you have seen this before with the slide stops and what it maybe.
Thanks
Ross T.
[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited December 16, 1999).]
Brian Bilby
New member
Ross,
The nicks on the feedramp can cause problems. I'll try to give you a brief idea what the problem may be.
Round stops dead on frame feedramp- Could be rough/nicked feedramp, improperly cut feedramp on ramped barrel or weak magazine springs.
Round goes up feedramp but stops with arse-end still in mag or downward- extractor tension too tight or extractor not radiused and tuned right, breechface walls too tight or crooked, rough breechface or sharp edge on chamber not broken allowing the round to rollover.
Round feeds into chamber buts sticks out of battery- Chamber too tight or not enough leade into the rifling, causing the bullet to stick into the rifling.
As far as the slide stop goes, it could be that the tab on the insdie of the slide stop is too long and rounds are bumping it. Look to see if you see brass marks on it. On all of the combat guns I build, I detent the slide stops to prevent this.
Another thing, if the gun is stainless, make sure to lube it with the proper kind of lube in the right areas. use a red lithium or stainless grease, not oil. Also Dextron Mercon II synthetic trans fluid is a good lube. Lube the inside of the slide in the barrel channel and the end of the barrel where the bushing rides, then lube the rails. If a stainless gun isn't properly lubed it will gall and bind/pick up and that will cause malfunctions.
Brian
The nicks on the feedramp can cause problems. I'll try to give you a brief idea what the problem may be.
Round stops dead on frame feedramp- Could be rough/nicked feedramp, improperly cut feedramp on ramped barrel or weak magazine springs.
Round goes up feedramp but stops with arse-end still in mag or downward- extractor tension too tight or extractor not radiused and tuned right, breechface walls too tight or crooked, rough breechface or sharp edge on chamber not broken allowing the round to rollover.
Round feeds into chamber buts sticks out of battery- Chamber too tight or not enough leade into the rifling, causing the bullet to stick into the rifling.
As far as the slide stop goes, it could be that the tab on the insdie of the slide stop is too long and rounds are bumping it. Look to see if you see brass marks on it. On all of the combat guns I build, I detent the slide stops to prevent this.
Another thing, if the gun is stainless, make sure to lube it with the proper kind of lube in the right areas. use a red lithium or stainless grease, not oil. Also Dextron Mercon II synthetic trans fluid is a good lube. Lube the inside of the slide in the barrel channel and the end of the barrel where the bushing rides, then lube the rails. If a stainless gun isn't properly lubed it will gall and bind/pick up and that will cause malfunctions.
Brian
Thanks Brian
I'm headed to the range early this morning. I'll look at all the stuff you pointed out. I appreciate the help.
Mute, Johnboy and Daddycat just thought you'd like to know, still no word from Springfield Armory. If they don't call or email by this Wednesday I will contact them.
Ross T.
I'm headed to the range early this morning. I'll look at all the stuff you pointed out. I appreciate the help.
Mute, Johnboy and Daddycat just thought you'd like to know, still no word from Springfield Armory. If they don't call or email by this Wednesday I will contact them.
Ross T.
Steve Smith
New member
Rosengall (I don't remember now, sorry), and Brian, My wife has the SA Ultra-Compact V-10, and we figured out how to get around the problem. Brian said it correctly in that the slide has less mass, and in order to use the short frame, the feedramp is steeper. The simple fix that we've found is this: When charging the chamber manually after inserting a fresh mag, instead of the "pull back on the slide and let fly" technique, we lock the slide to the rear first, insert the mag, then drop the slide stop. the gun feeds everytime when we do this. Just like having mag followers that won't let you drop the slide on an empty mag, the slide technique doesn't interfere with the utility or action of the piece, it's just different. We're quite pleased with her little .45.
I've very much appreciate all the responses
from every one so far. Heres an update: I sold the Ultra Elite and brought a Springfield Compact. Four inch barrel, steel
frame. To date I've put 350+ thru it without any malfunctions whatsoever. As I expected the accuracy is not as good as any of the Kimbers I've owned, but I pretty much expected that. Its adequate for a personal
defense carry weapon. Never the less, I took it to my smith and am having the trigger smoothed up a little and a full length metal guide rod fitted. As its this close to Christmas, it will be a while before I get it
back. I paid 515.00 for the pistol. I'll let you all know how it runs when I get it back.
For those of you who posted that your Kimbers are every thing you wanted them to be, I'm happy for you as well as envious. I believe that they have put out some very good pistols as your posts are proof of that and the first one I owned did fine right out of the box. As for the speculation regarding that perhaps the pistols coming out of Kimbers custom shop are more problematic than the others I have some feedback you might find interesting. This afternoon while at the range we picked up my wifes Kimber, a custom compact with an aluminum alloy frame
from the smith. It had some significant promblems with feeding and jaming(and no, a wilsons combat mag did'nt help). We had the barrel polished and a larger slide stop installed as my wife has small hands and this was a problem for her. I'm sorry to say the problem still exists, still doesn't feed consistently and still jams. The smith is going to work with it some more at no charge. Thing is, if he can't fix it and I have to send it back to Kimber I'm concerned they may now consider the warrenty invalid as I've had outside work done on it. Oh well, live and learn. My wife is muttering about having sold her Glock 27 which was 100%
reliable and is considering going with the G30 if her Kimber doesn't work when she gets it back. I'm still interested in hearing from you all, what do you think are the chances of George/Kimber still being willing
to honor the warrenty?
------------------
from every one so far. Heres an update: I sold the Ultra Elite and brought a Springfield Compact. Four inch barrel, steel
frame. To date I've put 350+ thru it without any malfunctions whatsoever. As I expected the accuracy is not as good as any of the Kimbers I've owned, but I pretty much expected that. Its adequate for a personal
defense carry weapon. Never the less, I took it to my smith and am having the trigger smoothed up a little and a full length metal guide rod fitted. As its this close to Christmas, it will be a while before I get it
back. I paid 515.00 for the pistol. I'll let you all know how it runs when I get it back.
For those of you who posted that your Kimbers are every thing you wanted them to be, I'm happy for you as well as envious. I believe that they have put out some very good pistols as your posts are proof of that and the first one I owned did fine right out of the box. As for the speculation regarding that perhaps the pistols coming out of Kimbers custom shop are more problematic than the others I have some feedback you might find interesting. This afternoon while at the range we picked up my wifes Kimber, a custom compact with an aluminum alloy frame
from the smith. It had some significant promblems with feeding and jaming(and no, a wilsons combat mag did'nt help). We had the barrel polished and a larger slide stop installed as my wife has small hands and this was a problem for her. I'm sorry to say the problem still exists, still doesn't feed consistently and still jams. The smith is going to work with it some more at no charge. Thing is, if he can't fix it and I have to send it back to Kimber I'm concerned they may now consider the warrenty invalid as I've had outside work done on it. Oh well, live and learn. My wife is muttering about having sold her Glock 27 which was 100%
reliable and is considering going with the G30 if her Kimber doesn't work when she gets it back. I'm still interested in hearing from you all, what do you think are the chances of George/Kimber still being willing
to honor the warrenty?
------------------
Steve Smith
New member
This was the only reason that I didn't take the Kimber I had to a good smith...I didn't want Kimber to void the 1 year warrantee. Several times, I got the feeling that they sere taking their time so that my year would run out and I'd still have the problem. That's why I demanded a new gun finally. They said, "If we don't fix it this time, we'll give you a new gun." I still have that in writing to this day. After I got it back the third time and it still didn't work, I called their bluff and reminded them that I had their statement in writing. They tried to weasel out of it, so the next day I sent them a LONG letter explaining I had documentation on EVERY conversation we'd had and I already had a letter addressed to Gun Tests, Handgunner, Shooting times and Guns and Ammo, refrencing all my problems. (yes, I really wrote it!) My replacement was in the mail the next day. I sold the replacement without shooting it, and bought my trusty SA. Good luck to you.
---By the way, I think the chances are low for getting Kimber to deal with it now...if they don't, then you can either sell it with a guilty conscience (not right) or send it to Brian Bilby for him to fix it.
[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited December 19, 1999).]
---By the way, I think the chances are low for getting Kimber to deal with it now...if they don't, then you can either sell it with a guilty conscience (not right) or send it to Brian Bilby for him to fix it.
[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited December 19, 1999).]
Hi guys
Sorry for not getting back in a timely manner, but got caught up with the holidays and visiting family and work. Walked in about an hour ago and now I can give you the scoop on the Springfield.
Springfield Armory finally contacted me via Email the tuesday before my deadline for them to contact me. They stated in their email that they apologize for the problems I've experienced with my pistol and that I could send it back and they will do what they need to do to repair it. It is covered in their lifetime warranty. I should also expect anywhere from a 2 to 4 week period, once they recieve it, for them to take care of the problems.
I appreciated their response and their offer to repair the pistol. But I'd would still have to send it away via UPS (and pray it doesn't get 5-fingered discounted by a unlawful UPS employee). So that was one worry I would have to endure in sending it away. This negative mark doesn't go against Springfield in anyway but it is something that has to be taken into my consideration.
The only negative mark I can give springfield is the fact that the problem would have been discovered if they just ran one full mag of ammo through the pistol at the factory.
So I took it to the range and met my gunsmithing friend. He looked it over and was surprised at the headache story I gave him about it. He likes working with Springfields.......he also likes working with Kimbers too.
He took it apart and saw that the mag catch was way out of spec. He thought that maybe causing some of the problems, causing the mag to move a bit, but didn't think that would cause all the probs I experienced with it. He looked around some more and put it back together and then found the problem.
There was no tension from the plunger tube to the slide stop. The slide stop would just wobble around and he showed me racking the slide a couple times how it would cause it to look like the bullet would stop right on the feed ramp. That would also explain how the slide stop was engaging while there was still ammo in the mags.
He disassembled it again and said the plunger tubes holes didn't have enough clearance to allow the pins (not sure if that's what the parts name is, im just going from memory) to go all the way through to engage the slide stop.
I talked to him just before Christmas and he has it up and running now with no jams. He also checkered the frontstap, dehorned the entire gun, took a little off the frame portion to allow a higher grip and put in a new trigger for me. I'm going to try and hook up with him this week and shoot it some and get more done to it. I can't wait.
I also don't have to worry about it getting stolen in route b/c he'll meet me at the range.
Ross T.
[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited January 03, 2000).]
Sorry for not getting back in a timely manner, but got caught up with the holidays and visiting family and work. Walked in about an hour ago and now I can give you the scoop on the Springfield.
Springfield Armory finally contacted me via Email the tuesday before my deadline for them to contact me. They stated in their email that they apologize for the problems I've experienced with my pistol and that I could send it back and they will do what they need to do to repair it. It is covered in their lifetime warranty. I should also expect anywhere from a 2 to 4 week period, once they recieve it, for them to take care of the problems.
I appreciated their response and their offer to repair the pistol. But I'd would still have to send it away via UPS (and pray it doesn't get 5-fingered discounted by a unlawful UPS employee). So that was one worry I would have to endure in sending it away. This negative mark doesn't go against Springfield in anyway but it is something that has to be taken into my consideration.
The only negative mark I can give springfield is the fact that the problem would have been discovered if they just ran one full mag of ammo through the pistol at the factory.
So I took it to the range and met my gunsmithing friend. He looked it over and was surprised at the headache story I gave him about it. He likes working with Springfields.......he also likes working with Kimbers too.
He took it apart and saw that the mag catch was way out of spec. He thought that maybe causing some of the problems, causing the mag to move a bit, but didn't think that would cause all the probs I experienced with it. He looked around some more and put it back together and then found the problem.
There was no tension from the plunger tube to the slide stop. The slide stop would just wobble around and he showed me racking the slide a couple times how it would cause it to look like the bullet would stop right on the feed ramp. That would also explain how the slide stop was engaging while there was still ammo in the mags.
He disassembled it again and said the plunger tubes holes didn't have enough clearance to allow the pins (not sure if that's what the parts name is, im just going from memory) to go all the way through to engage the slide stop.
I talked to him just before Christmas and he has it up and running now with no jams. He also checkered the frontstap, dehorned the entire gun, took a little off the frame portion to allow a higher grip and put in a new trigger for me. I'm going to try and hook up with him this week and shoot it some and get more done to it. I can't wait.
I also don't have to worry about it getting stolen in route b/c he'll meet me at the range.
Ross T.
[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited January 03, 2000).]
Had the same feed problems with my Ultra Elite and my Colt ltwt officer. The colt mags supplied with the gun and colt factory mags seemed to be the problem (must have been a bad day at the factory). Switched to McCormick mags and got the Kimber running 4.0. Colt still chocks on the feed every now and then. Trying the Wilson mags next. If that doesn't solve it, I guess we will look at some new springs.
My Kimber compact function 100% with Chip McCormick officer sized 7 round magazines. It even function with Wilson's and CMC full size eight round mags. It's my first Kimber and I am very please with it. I've owned several customized 1911 that I've paid twice as much as the little Kimber, but they are not two times better than the Kimber.
Brian:
I'm new to FL, but I've had feeding broblems with my V-10 Ultra Compact as well. A ramped/throated barrel didn't help, then a second smith told me the rounds were catching on the frame cut below the feed ramp, and that smoothing this would work. He showed me empty cases actually being damaged at this point. Extractor tension seems OK. Have you encountered this, any thoughts?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Bilby:
Ross,
The nicks on the feedramp can cause problems. I'll try to give you a brief idea what the problem may be.
Round stops dead on frame feedramp- Could be rough/nicked feedramp, improperly cut feedramp on ramped barrel or weak magazine springs.
Round goes up feedramp but stops with arse-end still in mag or downward- extractor tension too tight or extractor not radiused and tuned right, breechface walls too tight or crooked, rough breechface or sharp edge on chamber not broken allowing the round to rollover.
Round feeds into chamber buts sticks out of battery- Chamber too tight or not enough leade into the rifling, causing the bullet to stick into the rifling.
As far as the slide stop goes, it could be that the tab on the insdie of the slide stop is too long and rounds are bumping it. Look to see if you see brass marks on it. On all of the combat guns I build, I detent the slide stops to prevent this.
Another thing, if the gun is stainless, make sure to lube it with the proper kind of lube in the right areas. use a red lithium or stainless grease, not oil. Also Dextron Mercon II synthetic trans fluid is a good lube. Lube the inside of the slide in the barrel channel and the end of the barrel where the bushing rides, then lube the rails. If a stainless gun isn't properly lubed it will gall and bind/pick up and that will cause malfunctions.
Brian[/quote]
I'm new to FL, but I've had feeding broblems with my V-10 Ultra Compact as well. A ramped/throated barrel didn't help, then a second smith told me the rounds were catching on the frame cut below the feed ramp, and that smoothing this would work. He showed me empty cases actually being damaged at this point. Extractor tension seems OK. Have you encountered this, any thoughts?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Bilby:
Ross,
The nicks on the feedramp can cause problems. I'll try to give you a brief idea what the problem may be.
Round stops dead on frame feedramp- Could be rough/nicked feedramp, improperly cut feedramp on ramped barrel or weak magazine springs.
Round goes up feedramp but stops with arse-end still in mag or downward- extractor tension too tight or extractor not radiused and tuned right, breechface walls too tight or crooked, rough breechface or sharp edge on chamber not broken allowing the round to rollover.
Round feeds into chamber buts sticks out of battery- Chamber too tight or not enough leade into the rifling, causing the bullet to stick into the rifling.
As far as the slide stop goes, it could be that the tab on the insdie of the slide stop is too long and rounds are bumping it. Look to see if you see brass marks on it. On all of the combat guns I build, I detent the slide stops to prevent this.
Another thing, if the gun is stainless, make sure to lube it with the proper kind of lube in the right areas. use a red lithium or stainless grease, not oil. Also Dextron Mercon II synthetic trans fluid is a good lube. Lube the inside of the slide in the barrel channel and the end of the barrel where the bushing rides, then lube the rails. If a stainless gun isn't properly lubed it will gall and bind/pick up and that will cause malfunctions.
Brian[/quote]
Brian Bilby
New member
Scott,
I've seen this with Springfields and Para's. In most cases the barrel ramp has to be recut and recontoured, then the rounds are deflected up the ramp.
Brian
I've seen this with Springfields and Para's. In most cases the barrel ramp has to be recut and recontoured, then the rounds are deflected up the ramp.
Brian
I've owned Colts, Springfields and am currently waiting for delivery on a Kimber Custom Royal.
I've had problems with some and some I haven't. I never had a problem with any of the full sized pistols. All of the ones that have given me trouble have been the compact models. The worst was an enhanced Colt officers model that was completely unreliable.
I learned a long time ago to stay away from compacts that were made by chopping down a full sized pistol. They just aren't as reliable. If you're looking for a compact in my opinion you're better off going with something like a Kahr K9 or K40. Stick with a pistol that's been designed as a compact from the ground up.
I've had problems with some and some I haven't. I never had a problem with any of the full sized pistols. All of the ones that have given me trouble have been the compact models. The worst was an enhanced Colt officers model that was completely unreliable.
I learned a long time ago to stay away from compacts that were made by chopping down a full sized pistol. They just aren't as reliable. If you're looking for a compact in my opinion you're better off going with something like a Kahr K9 or K40. Stick with a pistol that's been designed as a compact from the ground up.