Seeking O/U Information

but don't compromise too much on your first guns if you know you're serious about this pasttime.
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There's a lot of wisdom in this comment.

When I bought a new shotgun last year, I was thinking this expensive semi-auto would be GREAT. Well, it is a good gun, but it just isn't a clay sports gun. I saved a few hundred over a Browning Cynergy Sporting, and now I'm beginning to think that maybe next year I'll be laying out the cash for a quality skeet gun. Maybe it will be a Cynergy Sporting. Maybe I'll scrounge and go with a Blaser F3 if I think that maybe the Browning might be a compromise for my purposes.

Either way, the $1400 I put into my Remington CTi II won't be much of a help. I still like the thing, but a little bit more would have made me even happier.

Live and learn.
 
+1 on the compromise statement - we see here (and on other forums) where someone wants to get into thew sport with some $500 O/U that doesn't fit, has triggers that feel like they have sand embedded in grease in them ,balance like a pig on a shovel, and basically beat the snot out of the shooter............and then we hear about they quit shooting trap or sporting because their gun "hurt".

Buy quality once (read my sig line), and get the gun to fit you and your shooting experience will be an enjoyable one........
 
I hear more stories about folks who think they can't get into the shotgun sports because they can't afford to drop $3K on a gun. Strange that shotgun sports seem to be the only shooting sport where the advice is to spend a few thousand before you decide if the game is even for you. Ask the sillywet crowd what yopu need to start and they'll most likely point you toward an old T/C 357 instead of a Freedom Arms wheel gun. The local IDPA folks keep after me to play with them and tell me "Just shoot what you've got". Yet I mention shooting skeet or trap and I immediately hear that I need to drop a few grand on a new shotgun. I wonder where the difference lies?
 
I have a Beretta O/U that I bought gently used-second hand. I use it for upland hunting. I train and test a lot with AKC-affiliated clubs, so for safety break-open weapons are the only ones allowed in the bird field.

Absolutely, fit/feel should be paramount. Having said that, don't be bashfull about taking it to a good gunsmith for a little tweaking. I had my stock shortened about an inch with a quality recoil pad put on for a $100 or so. Easier than the never-ending quest for the perfect gun off the rack, which when it comes to shotguns, I don't think exists.
 
Sorry Okie - NO one said you need to drop a few grand, what was said that you need to buy QUALITY.............for a O/U, unfortunately, a few grand is needed to buy one of those that has some quality. However, a quality semi can be had for less.

Next time look at the competition shooters who WIN, in any of the shooting sports, and see how many shoot a cheap POS gun and make it there. If the goal is just to try a few times to warm up for hunting, that is one thing............however, if the goal is to be successful in competition, especially in the clay target sports, then your misguided view is mistaken. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just makes it the way it is
 
Sure, but how many of those shoters do you think started out with a old beater? I'm not saying the Yildez I just bought is anywhere near the quality of one of the B guns, but it's a fine shotgun that I've managed to run sevel hundred rounds a week thru without it blowing up and run pretty consistant 20-23's. You think a more expensive/better quality gun will buy me a 25, or will more shells and range time earn me that? I've got an account started now that in a few years I'll use to buy that quality O/U, but until then my cheapo turk and old American 311 will do me.
 
The OP asked for advice on O/U's that would meet or exceed his needs...not for a budget gun ....

For any person that thinks they want to try the clay target games - any field grade pump gun, even with a fixed Modified choke - will be ok to start with to see if they have any interest in these games. A good pump gun - is a good long term gun ...and I'd always recommend people invest in a good pump gun for around $ 500.

Noone said the less expensive O/U's will blow up ...and there isn't anything wrong with a 20 or 21 avg for someone just taking these games up on a casual basis / but if someone expects to compete, even on a local level, your scores need to be a 24+ average ....or you're going to be left quickly behind. I know there are classes ...and averages vary ... but your bad rounds need to be 23's not 20's if you want to shoot well.

Spending $ 3K on a shotgun will not buy you better scores - if it doesn't fit / or your fundamentals on mount, swing, etc are bad ...your scores will still be up and down. What I do know is the B guns retain their value / so I'll stand behind my advice. The B guns are not "high end" equipment ...they're good solid working level guns ...but we overdebate this issue too often on this forum / and we've beat it to death. What most of us have tried to point out - is the differences in ribs, handling characteristics, etc so the OP can make his own choice. He should still pick a gun with a lot of adjustability, in my view, so it can be set up properly - and he can quickly reach his potential ( whether its a 21, or a 24 average will depend largly on how hard he works at the game ).

Same thing on IDPA - shoot what you have if you're a casual shooter / if you want to reach your potential - consider lessons and maybe some equipment alternatives.

I'm not a serious competition shooter anymore - a good 1911 is all the handgun I need for casual local competition / and a good Browning XS Skeet will do anything I need it to do for my casual Skeet and Sporting Clays outings....
 
The only correct response to your question is:

Hello. I am fairly new to shotguns - O/U specifically. With that said, I am very interesting in getting into Skeet/trap/sporting clays. I belong to a range that does trap and there is a Skeet range open to the public one town over so my options are open.

I am looking for an O/U that will fit/exceed my needs. Maybe something with interchangeable barrels.
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You should go to the local ranges and ask for help. Let a couple coaches help you get started. Interview them by asking how to get a properly fitted shotgun. If they say "Put the butt in your elbow and see if your index finger reaches the trigger.", then RUN and find another coach/ instructor. Buying a shotgun is not as easy as 95% of the people think. Proper fit is KEY. Proper fit is not something you find without experienced help.
 
...it's a fine shotgun that I've managed to run several hundred rounds a week thru without it blowing up and run pretty consistant 20-23's. You think a more expensive/better quality gun will buy me a 25, or will more shells and range time earn me that?
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Actually, if you are shooting that many rounds for as long as you say, then the new shotgun will buy you the higher scores; assuming that it is properly fitted. Almost every shooter that is stuck at those scores is there because his/her shotgun does not fit properly.
Spend a little time and money by having someone fit you properly, then ask them to compare their measurements to your shotgun. You will then see the problem.
 
You think a more expensive/better quality gun will buy me a 25, or will more shells and range time earn me that?
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More shells and range time, spent using an ill-fitting gun that you have tried to fit yourself to (as opposed to making it fit to you), and practicing bad habits will only serve to reinforce bad things and make correction that much harder to correct.

A Yildiz does NOT balance well, handle well or have great triggers, If you get the chance to shoot a quality gun, you will see the difference. Whether or not that will "buy" you an extra bird or two is dependent on your ability. If you are just screwing around and you are happy with your scores, then keep using what you want.
 
OkieCruffler said:
The local IDPA folks keep after me to play with them and tell me "Just shoot what you've got". Yet I mention shooting skeet or trap and I immediately hear that I need to drop a few grand on a new shotgun. I wonder where the difference lies?
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OC, my friend, that's a very good question. I think a lot of it has to do with perception and assumptions. Let's be realistic, shotgun sports are generally shot with O/Us (with the exception of single target trap), and the occasional auto-loader. I've never seen a pump gun used in an event (except trap) with nationally registered targets. To the shotgun wannabe, the comp O/Us of the various disciplines all look the same (but, they are highly tailored to their sports). As far as they are concerned, the third-world shotgun in the liquidator's catalog seems the same as those comp guns.

Since comp shooters like saving money as much as anyone else, why don't they shoot the budget imports? It's simple, with the better guns, they shoot higher scores. Like it or not, a decent O/U is gonna run $2-3K. The typical comp gun represents a bigger investment.

Unlike O/Us, with handguns the difference between the guns used for single action cowboy events and the auto-loaders in combat pistol are readily apparent. You don't need to be an experienced hand-gunner to see there's a difference between a 1911-type racer and a heavy wheeler from the Wyoming side of Freedom. When was the last time someone asked, "I want to get into hand-gunning, what gun do you recommend for SASS, IDPA, hunting and HD?" Yet, requests for recommendations for do-everything shotguns are common. And, they often include an unrealistic budget.

The non- and new shooters recognize the differences in handgun types and appreciate their limitations, yet they expect a universal shotgun. I suspect this is because of the similar appearance of various O/Us and the obvious differences in handguns.

An inescapable truth about shotguns is the need for a proper fit. IMHO, you can spend more setting up a shotgun than a handgun for proper fit. Some of the price differences are simply the result of scale. Obviously, if you want custom fit grips/stock, there's a lot more wood in a shotgun. And, with a shotgun's stock, aren't there more critical dimensions than in a handgun's wood? You want a trigger job done… with a shotgun not only do you have double the work because of two sears, then you have the task of matching them.

There's no reason you can't give any of the shotgun sports a try with an every day gun. And, unless you're beat up by an ill fitting gun, you'll have a lot of fun while learning the ropes. There will come a time when it's your gun that's restricting your development, not your ability. Then it's time to think about a new gun.
You think a more expensive/better quality gun will buy me a 25, or will more shells and range time earn me that?
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For many years I shot a Winchester O/U Skeet gun and my best score was a 98 -- no matter what I did, year after year, there was always something that cost me those 2 targets in an otherwise perfect round. I replaced the W-101 with a P-Mirage and was soon shooting 100-straights. For me, the up grade was money well spent. You'll have to make your own decision.
 
The point I'mn trying to make is don't let the fact that you can't afford an expensive gun keep you from playing the game. I have never said that my cheap turk gun is the equal of a Bgun (I'd be willing to put my 311 up against one however that's another thread) nor have I suggested that the top shooters in any game uses a cheap gun. After being accused of "screwing around" and informed that my scores after shooting skeet for less than a year are basically a joke I've about decided to change my arguement to don't let internet attitude keep you from playing the game. Luckily that attitude seems to only be present on the internet, I've nver run into it on the actual range. You folks enjoy this one, I'm done.
 
The point I'm trying to make is don't let the fact that you can't afford an expensive gun keep you from playing the game.
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Your point is well taken, and, no doubt about it, you can have a lot of fun playing the games with a reasonably priced gun (I did so for almost 20-years). In the past I've opined that that a pump gun is a handicap in events with doubles, yet I know a lot of non-comp shooters who've been enjoying shooting pumps for years. One of our club's past-presidents loved to "re-orient" an occasional arrogant fancy-gun upstart with his old riot 870. The mil spec finish was mostly gone, but the action was as smooth as silk.

About progress… IMHO, there are two personality types you'll find on the practice fields: those who are repeaters and those who are learners. The repeaters will take the same approach every time they shoot. They figure that with enough practice they will eventually become a better shooter. The learners, after trying something for a while and if it doesn't work, they look for a different approach -- they even buy books/videos and take lessons. Obviously, the repeaters commit their errors to muscle memory and the learners progress.

If you're a repeater, there's little I can suggest to help you, and yes a new gun might improve your score. However, if you're a learner, there's a world of opportunity out there. First, as in many things, use your ears more than your mouth. (No one wants to hear an excuse when you miss a target.) If possible try to shoot with those who are better than you. Between Trap and Skeet, you're likely to learn more from the better Skeet shooters because of the way the games are shot. On the Trap field, all you're really aware of is if the other shooters are hitting or missing -- on the Skeet field, as each squad member shoots, the others are observing him from behind. So, you've got a better chance of getting feed-back.

Another option is to buddy up with a more experienced shooter. This approach works for me, but is more productive on the Skeet field. My friend, Big Jim, with all of his experience, has an older more experienced shooting buddy, too -- Jim's a learner.

Good luck and have fun with whatever gun you shoot.
 
After being accused of "screwing around" and informed that my scores after shooting skeet for less than a year are basically a joke I've about decided to change my arguement to don't let internet attitude keep you from playing the game
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If you are just screwing around and you are happy with your scores, then keep using what you want.
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Maybe Okie - you should compare what I wrote to your comment.....note the IF at the beginning of the statement. For many folks, shooting clays is just for screwing around and having fun, not competition. For that, your choice of a Yildiz might work out just fine. There was no slight to you or anyone else, so get over yourself in that regard
 
First off, I want to thank everyone who brought insight backed by experience to this post, I appreciate it. That is what I was looking for. I saw very quickly from lurking on this forum the heated debates between a less expensive and a more expensive O/U that come from these types of questions. That's why I tried from the outset to say I wasn't looking for a budget O/U (which is why I posted in the first place, it seems that question is asked much more frequently). My questions were more tailored to "how do I identify the right O/U for me and my needs." Thanks to your responses, I now have a better understanding.

I completely understand how someone could buy a cheaper O/U and get into the sport just fine, I even considered going down that path- it's appealing. But personally, I usually don't plan on getting into new sports for the short term so spending more for a better overall and longer last product seems like the right choice.

Thanks again for all the input. I am sure I will have more questions as I get out there and test these guns out.
 
you can have a lot of fun playing the games with a reasonably priced gun
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For me, that is the point. If it isn't "a lot of fun", then why am I wasting my hard earned money and precious time doing it? I started with a used Beretta AL390S that I still have and is still my favorite overall shotgun.

About a year ago I bought a Browning Cynergy Classic with adjustable comb for ~1700.00 that is a thing of beauty. Has it brought me higher scores?... well, not yet, but it is a joy to look at and a joy to shoot. I also have a Yildiz that was a gift from a friend. I have only shot a few rounds of sporting clays with it, but guess what... I shot my second highest score with it the first time I used it.

So, clearly, OkieCruffler, you CAN have loads of fun with a less expensive shotgun and you should.

If you can afford a nicer gun, then why not have one? Sure I would love to have a higher grade shotgun, but that is not in the cards for me right now and I am just elated with the Cynergy.

Also, I wanted to bring the Cynergy into the mix. It seems to always be overlooked in favor of the Citori when folks talk Browning.
 
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