I have the same two guns but the 686 is 4" and the GP100 is 5". Both seem well balanced to me. The only 6 inch gun I have is the Smith 617 .22 LR (K frame), and it is a whole lot of gun in order to fit in 10 rounds. I'm still getting used to all that heft in a sizable full lug barrel with a small hole bored through it.
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Security-Six v. GP-100
- Thread starter Cold Steel
- Start date
I have the same two guns but the 686 is 4" and the GP100 is 5". Both seem well balanced to me. The only 6 inch gun I have is the Smith 617 .22 LR (K frame), and it is a whole lot of gun in order to fit in 10 rounds. I'm still getting used to all that heft in a sizable full lug barrel with a small hole bored through it.
Cold Steel
New member
The Gunblast article by Butch Kent makes some very good points, though while he says many heavier, modern bullets have been developed that are at least as good as the 125-gr. JHP remains to be seen. The effectiveness of the 125-gr JHP loads was established when police were using them, and that was some time ago. Also, not all bullets are the same. I almost bought some FBI load ammo from Georgia Arms in .38 Special, then I came across some tests of that ammo online and saw that although the bullets appeared identical to another brand (with a better reputation), the GA ammo didn't expand at all. That was a couple of years ago at least and that might have changed, but my point is that all 125-gr JHPs appear to work virtually the same. So it may still be a good idea to use them for self defense.
Frame warp was another problem with magnum ammo. Forcing cones splitting tended to occur primarily with guns using handloaded ammo. Hunters wanting a lightweight .357 loved the 6-inch Model 66. And small changes in loads can result in major changes in pressure, so people hunting deer in the field might have been tempted to use higher pressure loads. And for self defense, gun magazines for years have pushed velocity as a vital part of stopping power, so handloaders nursed their loads to get the maximum velocity possible out of shorter barrels. This could greatly increase flame cutting without adding very much to performance.
In short, if people had stuck to factory loads, this whole thing about K-frames might have been a non-starter. The late great gunwriter Skeeter Skelton wrote that he personally knew of three Ruger Security-Sixes, each of which had more than 300,000 rounds of magnum rounds through them. One was just slightly out of time, he wrote, but was still fully serviceable. And one range owner claims to have a Security-Six that has fired over a million rounds. That, however, I've been unable to document. Some say a million, some 1.4 million and some say 2 million, but so far this seems to be an unsubstantiated Internet rumor.
Frame warp was another problem with magnum ammo. Forcing cones splitting tended to occur primarily with guns using handloaded ammo. Hunters wanting a lightweight .357 loved the 6-inch Model 66. And small changes in loads can result in major changes in pressure, so people hunting deer in the field might have been tempted to use higher pressure loads. And for self defense, gun magazines for years have pushed velocity as a vital part of stopping power, so handloaders nursed their loads to get the maximum velocity possible out of shorter barrels. This could greatly increase flame cutting without adding very much to performance.
In short, if people had stuck to factory loads, this whole thing about K-frames might have been a non-starter. The late great gunwriter Skeeter Skelton wrote that he personally knew of three Ruger Security-Sixes, each of which had more than 300,000 rounds of magnum rounds through them. One was just slightly out of time, he wrote, but was still fully serviceable. And one range owner claims to have a Security-Six that has fired over a million rounds. That, however, I've been unable to document. Some say a million, some 1.4 million and some say 2 million, but so far this seems to be an unsubstantiated Internet rumor.
The Gunblast article by Butch Kent makes some very good points, though while he says many heavier, modern bullets have been developed that are at least as good as the 125-gr. JHP remains to be seen. The effectiveness of the 125-gr JHP loads was established when police were using them, and that was some time ago. Also, not all bullets are the same. I almost bought some FBI load ammo from Georgia Arms in .38 Special, then I came across some tests of that ammo online and saw that although the bullets appeared identical to another brand (with a better reputation), the GA ammo didn't expand at all. That was a couple of years ago at least and that might have changed, but my point is that all 125-gr JHPs appear to work virtually the same. So it may still be a good idea to use them for self defense.
I referenced the article mainly for its technical aspects rater than for Kent's recommendations on carry ammo. That being said, while the 125gr screamers are certainly formidable choices for self-defense, I think there are also other good choices that are generally easier on the gun. Both Winchester's 145gr Silvertip and Remington's 158gr SJHP also have very good reputations and, in my own informal testing, also expand very aggressively. Currently, my "general purpose" .357 Magnum loading is the Remington 158 though I've used the Silvertip in the past and have seriously considered going back to it if I can ever find any.
Honestly, I think a lot of the mystique of the 125's comes from the Marshall/Sanow tests in which they rated as the best defensive handgun ammunition available. While I don't think these tests are completely useless (particularly the .357 Magnum data given the very large number of shootings with that caliber), I don't think that the OSS percentages should be taken as a literal number. I say this because Marshall and Sanow's work is, in essence, a case study and one of the problems with case studies is that, due to the lack of a controlled environment, the results obtained may or may not be repeatable. Quite honestly, I think that just about any full-power 125-158gr .357 Magnum load which expands reasonably aggressively will be fine, they've all got plenty of power to bring to the party.
Frame warp was another problem with magnum ammo. Forcing cones splitting tended to occur primarily with guns using handloaded ammo. Hunters wanting a lightweight .357 loved the 6-inch Model 66. And small changes in loads can result in major changes in pressure, so people hunting deer in the field might have been tempted to use higher pressure loads. And for self defense, gun magazines for years have pushed velocity as a vital part of stopping power, so handloaders nursed their loads to get the maximum velocity possible out of shorter barrels. This could greatly increase flame cutting without adding very much to performance.
While some factory loads, the full-power 125's in particular, no doubt played their role, I agree that handloaders trying to squeeze every last bit of velocity out of the cartridge probably played a large role in creating the perception of "fagile" K-Frames. I've never quite understood the need to hot-rod a .357 Magnum beyond what normal factory loadings can offer because if I need more power, I'll reach for my .41 or .44 Magnum.
In short, if people had stuck to factory loads, this whole thing about K-frames might have been a non-starter. The late great gunwriter Skeeter Skelton wrote that he personally knew of three Ruger Security-Sixes, each of which had more than 300,000 rounds of magnum rounds through them. One was just slightly out of time, he wrote, but was still fully serviceable. And one range owner claims to have a Security-Six that has fired over a million rounds. That, however, I've been unable to document. Some say a million, some 1.4 million and some say 2 million, but so far this seems to be an unsubstantiated Internet rumor.
I mostly agree, but I would say that if people had stuck to ammunition for which they were designed the whole issue with K-Frames may have been a non-starter. As I mentioned before, a 158gr bullet at 1200-1300fps or something reasonably close to that is the best ammo for a K-Frame Magnum because that sort of ammunition is all that was available when the gun was conceived in the 1950's.
I agree too. A person should be fine with a 158gr bullet whether its the K-Frame Magnum or the Ruger Security Six Magnum.I mostly agree, but I would say that if people had stuck to ammunition for which they were designed the whole issue with K-Frames may have been a non-starter. As I mentioned before, a 158gr bullet at 1200-1300fps or something reasonably close to that is the best ammo for a K-Frame Magnum because that sort of ammunition is all that was available when the gun was conceived in the 1950's.
Howard