Using Lee, Hornady and RCBS dies. Some trim lengths are off by .001. Measuring bullets and they vary about the same. So by my calculations I should be + or minus .002 either way on seating depth. Some dead on and some as much as .007 off either way. So I've backed seating stem 2 full turns backwards before seating anything. Then going through pain in the butt to lower gradually until I'm at for example 2.765 or 2.80. Depending on caliber. Is this what you all have to do. Measurements a little closer measuring to the ogive but it's making the bullet seating as tedious as trimming demurring and cleaning primer pockets. What really gets my goat is the 140 Sierra Match Kings for my 260 are rarely even .001 in variation so I figured these would be a breeze. Same old crap. Back seating stem 2 turns and go down slightly until coal is consistent. Any suggestions. And I am giving full stroke on cam lever.
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Seating inconsistent really p....ng me off
- Thread starter Wendyj
- Start date
Wendyj, this stuff does not drive me to the curb, I do not allow this stuff to lock me up. I have variations, most of my variations I have no control over. I purchased a gage, it measured electronically. It measured down to .000005". I removed the electronics then installed a dial indicator on the stylist. It works great as a height gage and comparator or when used as a run out gage. It is heavy by Pratt and Whitney.
F. Guffey
F. Guffey
A couple thousands variation is NBD but it is clear to me that you have not read a reloading manual because you sure are not adjusting the dies right.
I run the rifle die into the press with the bullet seater backed all the way out. I take a bullet and place it over a charged case. I adjust the seater stem until the bullet is in the cannalure or the cartridge OAL is correct.
Then I back up the bullet seater stem and turn in the seating die until I get the correct crimp. Once I get the crimp I want I lock the die in place and turn the bullet seater stem out till it contacts the bullet.
I take another charged case and seat another and then measure OAL if the length is right I then crimp the bullet in place and lock the nut in place on the seater stem. If not I adjust accordingly.
I can usually get the die set with one or two completed bullets.
I run the rifle die into the press with the bullet seater backed all the way out. I take a bullet and place it over a charged case. I adjust the seater stem until the bullet is in the cannalure or the cartridge OAL is correct.
Then I back up the bullet seater stem and turn in the seating die until I get the correct crimp. Once I get the crimp I want I lock the die in place and turn the bullet seater stem out till it contacts the bullet.
I take another charged case and seat another and then measure OAL if the length is right I then crimp the bullet in place and lock the nut in place on the seater stem. If not I adjust accordingly.
I can usually get the die set with one or two completed bullets.
Hartcreek, I'm no expert but have read every frigging manual and watched you tube videos until I'm blue in the face. I set my dies up just like you do. I don't crimp so I'm not having to move die after seating. My stem is backed off before ever seating a bullet. I'm having to back the seating stem back a turn to two turns before taking a chance I'm going to be .005 to .007 too low. I can adjust down for too high. I'm wondering if it isn't the play in Lee quick change bushings. I know there isn't supposed to be any says R Lee but I not only see it I can feel it. I can get them precise but I'm doing a lot of dialing on stem. Don't assume someone hasn't read a manual because they have a question. I asked the question because of issues.
PA Joe. I only crimp 243 with cannilure in my 243. I don't crimp Barnes in 308 or 260 because I'm a little farther out to the lands. About half way between the cannilures. When I crimp 243 I use Lee crimp die. Separate operation but easier to me.
PA Joe. I only crimp 243 with cannilure in my 243. I don't crimp Barnes in 308 or 260 because I'm a little farther out to the lands. About half way between the cannilures. When I crimp 243 I use Lee crimp die. Separate operation but easier to me.
603Country
New member
Geez Wendy, calm down. Is your COAL variance really enough to matter? If so, order the Redding Micrometer comp seating die. That's what I use, and though I don't measure each loaded round, I will check every so often with the calipers.
Have some patience. Impatient people blow themselves up.
Have some patience. Impatient people blow themselves up.
Sorry Country. You too HartCreek. I had just been out using a kinetic puller to knock about 20 bullets out some so I could go play with seater stem and try to get them back to correct sizes. Honestly I have no idea if the 2-6 thousandths difference will affect accuracy but I will get one great hole. One flyer and 2 more great cloverleafs. Or in different shot configurations. I'm just assuming it's the difference in coal. I'm ok at around 300 yards but I'm trying to get ready to push these to a thousand and I'm trying to get everything perfect. Husband says I'm being too picky because I'm reloading his 7 mag and he's shooting 10 inch steel plates at 600 yards with same imperfections. We're getting old I guess. He says he's not interested in groups at 600 if he can hit something the size of a head. Lol. I hate that kinetic puller.
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jetinteriorguy
New member
I hate the kinetic pullers as well, so I bought the Hornady Cam Lock bullet puller with the collets. Man this think is just so slick and easy, I love it. Being relatively new to loading for an AR-15 I worked up my basic 55gr bullets using CCI 400 primers,and even though I've shot up a few hundred rounds with no problem since discovering the possibility of slam fires with these primers I'm pulling down about 1600 rounds to change over to a more suitable primer. (Whew) This is why I got the Hornady cam lock and so far have pulled about 500 rounds and it's easy peasy.
WVMountaineer
New member
Your biggest variance on certain loaded rounds probably are a combination of differences. If you are shooting Sierra Match grade bullets, than they and the hand trimmed cases are the smallest variables. The biggest differences are coming from your die bushing or adjusting the locking nut slightly when raising or lowering the seating stem. If you aren't match shooting with equivalent equipment, .007 will NOT be seen in your loads though. God Bless
Wendy : When using the calipers , are you using the little wheel to close and keep closed . If you do , you can get quite a bit of deflection in the calipers when they are opened up a ways if you are not consistent with the amount of pressure applied . To much force and the calipers will flex . I don't know about .007 but I have seen 3 or 4 thou . Add that to any other variables , quick change bushings , bullet lengths and that could total your .007 swing .
There are two other things to do or check to be sure you are getting accurate measurements .
1) Are your primers seated flush or below flush to the head ? I sometimes for what ever reason get primers not seated fully in my 5.56 loads . Not many but I was once having the same issue as you and realized I was measuring off the primer rather then the case head sometimes
2) Are you turning the cartridge in the comparator to insure it sits square to the components ?
Not sure if you use one of these but I went ahead and started using one and it does make it easier to square up the cases on the calipers . You install it on the opposing side of the caliper when using the comparator .
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/58...omparator-anvil-base-kit?cm_vc=ProductFinding
There are two other things to do or check to be sure you are getting accurate measurements .
1) Are your primers seated flush or below flush to the head ? I sometimes for what ever reason get primers not seated fully in my 5.56 loads . Not many but I was once having the same issue as you and realized I was measuring off the primer rather then the case head sometimes
2) Are you turning the cartridge in the comparator to insure it sits square to the components ?
Not sure if you use one of these but I went ahead and started using one and it does make it easier to square up the cases on the calipers . You install it on the opposing side of the caliper when using the comparator .
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/58...omparator-anvil-base-kit?cm_vc=ProductFinding
How are you measuring your bullets? You simply can not just use calipers. You have to make a spacer that fits the ogive too. I can vary the OAL .007 easy by just having to much crimp. Send us some photos. I use Lee, RCBS, Pacific and some other brand dies and have never had the problem that you are having and I hard cast my own.
Hey Wendy,
As some have alluded to the tips of the bullets are usually not overly consistent. You can easily check this by simply measuring some of them from tip to bases. Even with some of the plastic tipped ones like Hornady the ogives will vary a smidge in profile from one to the next. You have to use a comparator to check this. If you find there is a significant issue this may solve some of your problem, since most of the seating dies have the hollow stem which sits down on the ogive a bit. In some cases however, depending on the length or profile of the ogive, the tip may still hit the bottom of the seating stem. In this case you might have to have it relieved a touch or do so yourself if you have a good drip press and are confident using it.
As to the issue your having with your press, yes this can induce the differences your seeing real easily. I have several brands and sizes of of presses, Lee, Wells, RCBS, and I use the heaviest cast versions for my more accurate loads. It doesn't move any what so ever when I put normal pressure on it when sizing or seating especially. In fact you shouldn't have much pressure when seating anyway, so if your seeing things move when doing this step you might consider picking up a solid cast steel press for your top end loading.
The only other thing I can add to this would be to set your length, load 10 rounds, 5 seated normally and 5 seated meticulously as you mentioned above and shoot them against each other comparing the results. If there is a decided notable difference then purchase the comparator set and separate the bullets by length before loading and or pick up a heavier duty cast press.
I understand this is an annoying issue to say the least, however it isn't the end of the world. Take a deep breath and use it as a learning experience and work through it as such. There are a ton of other issues in life that can be twice as annoying and aggravating.
Hope this helps.
As some have alluded to the tips of the bullets are usually not overly consistent. You can easily check this by simply measuring some of them from tip to bases. Even with some of the plastic tipped ones like Hornady the ogives will vary a smidge in profile from one to the next. You have to use a comparator to check this. If you find there is a significant issue this may solve some of your problem, since most of the seating dies have the hollow stem which sits down on the ogive a bit. In some cases however, depending on the length or profile of the ogive, the tip may still hit the bottom of the seating stem. In this case you might have to have it relieved a touch or do so yourself if you have a good drip press and are confident using it.
As to the issue your having with your press, yes this can induce the differences your seeing real easily. I have several brands and sizes of of presses, Lee, Wells, RCBS, and I use the heaviest cast versions for my more accurate loads. It doesn't move any what so ever when I put normal pressure on it when sizing or seating especially. In fact you shouldn't have much pressure when seating anyway, so if your seeing things move when doing this step you might consider picking up a solid cast steel press for your top end loading.
The only other thing I can add to this would be to set your length, load 10 rounds, 5 seated normally and 5 seated meticulously as you mentioned above and shoot them against each other comparing the results. If there is a decided notable difference then purchase the comparator set and separate the bullets by length before loading and or pick up a heavier duty cast press.
I understand this is an annoying issue to say the least, however it isn't the end of the world. Take a deep breath and use it as a learning experience and work through it as such. There are a ton of other issues in life that can be twice as annoying and aggravating.
Hope this helps.
Wendy; If you check your box of bullets [Take any brand, any weight/style-pick one bullet at random and check it for length- G E N T L Y closing the caliper jaws until you feel contact.] Lock the jaws and check the rest of the bullets in the box, using that setting. Don't be surprised to find that some/many of the rest of the bullets in the box will be either longer or shorter. In short.. that box of bullets will vary in length from the get-go, and, so will your COAL. Take into account varying pressure on the press handle during the seating process and you end up with the situation you are experiencing now.
Some things, you just have to learn to live with, as you'll never get every round EXACT, no matter how hard you try. It just ain't gonna happen. And your 600-1000yd aiming error will be greater than any couple thousandths difference in COAL. Some things are hard to hear and accept.
Listen to your better-half and do the best you can with what you have, be satisfied that you've done your best, and you'll end up all the better for it. Not even the bench-resters will get every round to the same exact specs every time, no matter how hard they try. Try not to hate me for being blunt, but honesty is the best policy. There's no one-fix-it all solution that works for everyone.
WILL
Mike / Tx beat me to some of what I tried to get across. Hope it works out for you.
Will.
Some things, you just have to learn to live with, as you'll never get every round EXACT, no matter how hard you try. It just ain't gonna happen. And your 600-1000yd aiming error will be greater than any couple thousandths difference in COAL. Some things are hard to hear and accept.
Listen to your better-half and do the best you can with what you have, be satisfied that you've done your best, and you'll end up all the better for it. Not even the bench-resters will get every round to the same exact specs every time, no matter how hard they try. Try not to hate me for being blunt, but honesty is the best policy. There's no one-fix-it all solution that works for everyone.
WILL
Mike / Tx beat me to some of what I tried to get across. Hope it works out for you.
Will.
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Trim length won't have any effect on OAL. Variation in bullets could.
If your going to loose sleep over it you need something that will seat the bullet by the tip (note this will likely deform many rifle bullets but the OAL will be closer).
FWIW a foam ear plug in your bullet puller can help prevent damage to your pulled bullets. Might keep you from getting further frustrated trying to reseat bullets that have been damaged by the pulling process.
It there a correlation between different lengths and runout?
If your going to loose sleep over it you need something that will seat the bullet by the tip (note this will likely deform many rifle bullets but the OAL will be closer).
FWIW a foam ear plug in your bullet puller can help prevent damage to your pulled bullets. Might keep you from getting further frustrated trying to reseat bullets that have been damaged by the pulling process.
It there a correlation between different lengths and runout?
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I went back and measured the bullets again. The Barnes bullets are the most consistent tip to tip. I had measured some with the bullet compareter after seating but not before. The Sierra Match Kings are probably the ones that vary the most. Tip to tip and in the ogive also. I appreciate all of your help. I've just assumed that once set I wouldn't see over .002 variation in anything but I've found out I'm wrong. Trying to be a perfectionist isn't all it's cut out to be. Sorry for the rant.
.001 isn't enough to worry about. That's 1/1,000".
Forget the ogive and measure OAL from point to base. Forget the cannelure too. Don't bother measuring bullet length's. They'll be different by manufacturer and weight. Barnes bullets are solid copper. Turned by machines running machines(CNC, I think.) vs a wad of lead stuff into a metal case that gets swaged.
Sounds like the pressure you're using isn't quite the same for every ram stroke or the dies aren't locked and tightened tight enough.
Forget the ogive and measure OAL from point to base. Forget the cannelure too. Don't bother measuring bullet length's. They'll be different by manufacturer and weight. Barnes bullets are solid copper. Turned by machines running machines(CNC, I think.) vs a wad of lead stuff into a metal case that gets swaged.
Sounds like the pressure you're using isn't quite the same for every ram stroke or the dies aren't locked and tightened tight enough.