SD Speed & Accuracy: How Am I doing?

G

gvf

Moderator
SD Speed & Accuracy: How Am I doing?

Had a permit (CCW) for 5 mos - going to range to practice with self-defense the goal: I'm close (VERY) to 60, no real shooting experience before May. I've gone to range about 30 times since early May.

I've been working on quick-aim + accuracy. With 2 guns I mostly CCW (there's a 3rd, Colt Python I only occasionally carry) so far: Glock .45 Gap full-size I shoot pretty consistent bulls-eyes or very close up to 25 feet. After that: add an inch per 10 feet. Mostly I practice within the 25 ' area. Beyond 50': hardly practice at all. These are results with aim-time of a second and a half to two seconds. I make myself shoot under 2 seconds.

Same results with Colt Detective snub plus an inch. At 10' and under though quite a few bulls-eyes and under 3" for the rest. Weirdly, the few times I shoot at 50', I'm more accurate with the little Colt, usually 2 bulls-eyes or near, with 3 shots under 5", and one way off - on average. Same aim-time: 1 1/2 to 2 seconds.

So, how do experienced folks think this generally is going for me, given age, time shooting etc.? Also: what's a realistic goal for aim-speed at say, 15' or so? Half a sec or a sec.? Lastly, for closer than 6': if I imagine a BG, it seems too dangerous to keep focused on sights instead of the target - with a background image of the gun in a straight line while I hold the gun at eye-level. Seems too close and like it'd be too fast to do otherwise. My accuracy goes way off but I still get most shots with both guns within 4". This OK or should I keep using my sights as primary focus when really close? I also shoot fast and repeatedly when practicing real close to target.

Thanks for any feedback
 
IMHO

Age has nothing to do with your shooting abilities. Sounds like you are a pretty good shot already. If you are practicing for SD situations then your abilities are well within the ranges of (most) SD situations. Do not let your skills diminish. Happy shooting and may you never have to use your weapon in combat.

Josh.
 
Just one guys opinion, based on an assumption- you did this from the draw...

Sounds like the BGs need to beware.

I practice a draw from holster to two shots on a USPSA target at 15' with two shots in the A zone. I set my par timer for 1.5 seconds. Sometimes I try for 1 shot in 1 second. It's rare, but I can do it. Most of the time I get the shot off in the A zone in 1.1 to 1.25 seconds

I also practice draw to two shots each on two and then three different targets at 2 seconds for two targets and 2.5 seconds for three targets.

I always see something of my sights, I once heard it called a flash sight picture, but enough to know the sights are generally lined up. I've never bothered to measure the groups, just get an A zone which approximates the center mass of the chest behind which resides the heart, major arteries, spinal cord, some of lungs. In a defense situation striking these areas is likely to equate to stopping the threat.

As long as you aren't missing the man sized target then you are accomplishing your goal, putting lead into a threat so it stops (dies or changes it mind/course of action)
 
You are doing what...

all of us MUST do,e.g.: Practice, Practice, Practice!!!!

It sounds like you are getting reasonable groups, most of us CPL'ers have yet to be involved in a shoot situation. And would PREFER TO KEEP IT THAT WAY.

I prefer bowling pins as you get a clear reaction to hits, straight away means go dead center hit, topples and spins means offside hit, now you need a second shot to clear the table. and nothing more satisfyinh than clearing the table with a 2" .38.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks all. Couple of points, no this isn't from draw, feel I need to practice draws for awhile with gun unloaded. Besides, it's fairly crowded public range,so I want to work slowly and in steps with my draws before I do them there with loaded weapons. So, I put my gun at my side, the raise it, and the 2 sec and under is my aim time. Probably from the side position to the shot is 3". I can see with a holster and live round it'll likely go to 4 secs. So, that should be the next thing I start to work with: drawing quickly and getting to aim quick (though the latter is part of what I do now). I hear the goal for the whole movement: from holster to completed shot should be 2 sec.

The other point about bowling pins: sounds great, no range here does that. The one I go to tho does have computerized target pulleys, so it's nice, you can quickly shoot at various distances. Expensive though: $18/hr plus ammo. But, if I carry , and started late in life, I feel it's just dumb and dangerous for everyone for me to walk around half-knowing what I'm doing. Not ethical. So, for awhile, that's the expense and that's the way it is. Comes with the territory I guess. (Plus I enjoy it!)
 
A basic goal I tell my CCW students to strive for is to hit a normal paper plate in under 2 seconds from their normal concealed carry. That is not a hard and fast rule, and personally I think the whole speed issue is grossly over-emphasized for DGU, but that gives a good goal that combines an appropriate level of accuracy and speed.
 
It sounds like you're doing well.

I have had a little professional training and shoot a couple of times per month for the last few years. I consider myself an average shooter.

Using a light cover garment (vest) I can draw and consistently hit the A zone of an IDPA target in less than 2 seconds out to 15'. Past that and either times go up or hits go down. At 21', I range from 1.75 to 2.25 seconds and 75% A zone hits. Go out to 30' or beyond and I'm shooting less than 60% in 2-3 seconds.

A more restricitive cover garment also adds 0.25 - 0.50 to my times.

My 2 cents.

-Paul
 
Without any doubt, an advanced skill level is very comforting. A fight, however, has it's own dynamics. Often fights are won by aggressiveness and pure will to survive.

I would feel uncomfortable with a worse time than 1 second to make the first hit on a 9" standard paper plate at 7 yards from concealment. Dryfire and drawing practice is pretty cheap but can help cut the time down quite a bit...and with it the chances of survival.

RUready is just one tool on the way.
 
I would feel uncomfortable with a worse time than 1 second to make the first hit on a 9" standard paper plate at 7 yards from concealment.
Click to expand...
If you are doing sub-one second presentations from concealment (assuming typical CCW gear) you are either timing it wrong or need to be on the competitive circuit!
 
I posted originally and the Colt Detective I carry half the time is in a pocket holster. I think it would be hard to get that one out incredibly quickly, unless hand was in pocket near the gun to begin with. I wear jeans often.

Any thoughts on getting your draw hung up using a pocket H.? I like using it, very convenient and super easy to conceal a colt snub.
 
I can't help much with your Colt, as I am an auto guy through and through. I practice drawing from pocket concealment with my hand already gripping the handgun, as I will always have that hand in my pocket at the first hint of even a minimal threat. The beauty of pocket carry is almost instant presentation. It almost offsets the generally smaller caliber.

My P-32 comes out of my cargo pants pocket so fast and easy I don't even really use my shot timer much when shooting it. Seems too easy ;)

-Paul
 
HVF..... I applaud your efforts as well as your progress. It seems the older generation is STILL taking the brunt of the most recent crime wave and it's good to see that you have recognized that fact and have made the decision to NOT be a victim......... Hats off to you my good man!!!!!!!
 
gvf, I'd say you are doing quite well and have a good understanding of the value of practice. Do keep in mind you will fight as you have trained. The next thing to do IMO, is to become SAFE and comfortable with unlimbering that hogleg from concealment. Dryfire practice can be very valuable here. Put up a B27 target or something similar on the wall where you can practice. Unload the firearm. Unload it again. Place any live ammo in a whole nuther room. No joke. Then practice and pick up some speed at your own pace drawing and getting on target while wearing the clothes and gear you carry with. Good shooting.
 
GVF,

Sounds like you're on your way to establishing good skills. Keep up the good work. Like others have said, you need to practice drawing from your normal concealment.

Advice: Start slow without a cover garment. Reach back and find the gun's stocks and establish good grip. The gun should be positioned in a way that meets your hand naturally -- so you aren't bending your wrist or binding the gun against the holster when drawing. Draw the gun and bring it into position in a fluid motion. If you want to use a two-hand hold, your weak hand moves in front of your body as your strong hand moves to draw. When drawn, your weak hand 'receives' the gun as you push it into firing position. Stroke the trigger as soon as you present the gun with both hands. Repeat until this feels "natural".

When using a cover garment, you'll need to sweep it aside, raise it or otherwise move it out of the way. For jackets, I practice by sweeping it back with my palm back & up, fingers along my side, with a forcefull motion to push the jacket back and out. (Hint: A speedloader or similar weight in the pocket helps carry the jacket back and resists wind too). Then it's a matter of establishing the grip and drawing the gun. Start slow to establish the right motions and repeat until it feels natural.

For accuracy, try replacing perforated target centers with a paper plate (9" circle). If you consistently hit the plate at any speed, you're doing fine. A friend uses a felt marker to draw a 4" circle in the middle and that is his goal.

If you hit your target with a single shot in 1.5-2 seconds you'll be well prepared. If you can double-tap in under 2.5 seconds I'd say you're ready for almost anything.
 
gvf: Can you describe the drills your using and how you are integrating the timer?

I use a pocket holster with a J frame 642 regularly.. having the shrouded hammer practically eliminates the need to worry about getting hung up on the pocket.

If you can find a copy of S.W.A.T. Magazine on the newstand, I've got an article in the October issue discussing the "Balance Between Speed & Precision". Don't get hung up on objective standards or benchmarks... never stop trying to be more effiicient and faster. Keep your practice practical. Use the sights when you need to, which you figure out through frequent realistic practice.

-RJP
 
Well, my time is my count, so not completely accurate, but I have asked friend with stop watch to time while I aim and count myself. It's quite close in time. I can't think of auto-timers working for such a short period, but I'd be willing to investigate.

The drills I have all have to do with quick aim, and having the computerized target go to various distances with no real pattern. That seems to help me trust a quick sight look and fire. I also sometimes fire at the smaller side-targets on my target pattern. Quickly and in no fixed pattern. I also sometimes put the target far out, then enter 8' or so and try to hit it as it speeds back. Don't know how the range feels about this so I keep it light on that one. I also seem to get best accuracy when I begin a quick site look as the gun is being raised towards bulls-eye, moving in a straight line upwards and in the center of target. Keeps me from "roaming around" the bulls-eye. Soon as sight moves up and hits bottom of bulls-eye, I fire. Seems to help accuracy.

For now that's it. Next will be drawing dry and then slowed down draw at the range with live ammo. Then go to actual speed. It does make me nervous practicing live fire draws in a crowded range. But usually that's what's available.

Thanks all - you've been a great help!
 
If you are doing sub-one second presentations from concealment (assuming typical CCW gear) you are either timing it wrong or need to be on the competitive circuit!
Click to expand...

I shot competitions for many years. I am out of that loop but practice drawing regularly since several years with a KC timer and still go shooting once to twice a week.

To practice drawing, I am using RUready, it can be downloaded from the Brian Enos site. It is a great help and I am sure that if anybody practices with it for a year on pretty much a daily basis, he will go below one second. I am getting a little too old for real speed.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51311&hl=RU+Ready

Now, if you download and print one of the 1/3 scale targets, your living room will be large enough to practice.

....and practice makes perfect, doesn't it?

http://www.glockfaq.com/targets/competition/idpa.pdf
 
gvf,

Stop worrying about time... especially if you're not really timing yourself.

Be Efficient. Strive for the fastest consistent time that will allow you to get hits that are likely to significantly affect your threat's ability to present a lethal threat to you or those you are protecting.
 
We've all heard the old mantra, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast." Well, it is true. It translates for most into "start slow, become smooth, speed up, become smooth again, speed up, become smooth again, speed up... repeat until you are fast."

A way to improve:
Shooting tight groups? Speed up.
Shooting off of an eight inch paper plate? Slow down.
Decrease the size of the plate as necessary.
Eventually with practice your tight groups are fast.
Then begin to worry about your time.
 
Point Shooting VS Target Shooting

Anyone can learn to shoot tight groups when using the weapons sights, and it's a fact most guns shoot better than the operator. Point shooting though has the shooter bring his weapon up, point at the target without using the sights and fire off shots at the targets central mass. Some use paper plates some use 8x11 paper. My point is though you have to learn how to shoot quickly without taking time to aim using the sights. I haven't heard anyone distinguish between the two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top