Scout rifles again (sorry)

F

Futo Inu

New member
Normal scouts, not "Kodiac" scouts....

1. Does anyone have a weblink to a description/picture/specs on the Savage Scout?

2. Does the Savage scout mirror the Steyr scout, having: (a) integral bipod?, (b) magwell in the stock for extra mag?, (c) fluted barrel?, (d) fold-down, see-through, ghost ring adjustable iron sights? (e) 2.5x scope and ching sling standard? (f) same weight and length as the Steyr?

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited August 06, 1999).]
 
The answer is no on all counts. The Savage Scout is the Savage 10 FCM model with a fixed ghost ring sight, over-sized bolt handle, a light 20 inch barrel, synthetic stock (of low quality in my opinion), and a detachable box magazine with the release button on the side of the stock. Also, there is a mount for a scout scope but no scope is included. The trigger on the rifle is pure Savage (read: very heavy). Once you replace the trigger with a better aftermarket one and install a Leupold scout scope, you probably almost double your cost of the rifle. Add to that price all the extras you mention, and the price is around a grand, but you still have a Savage rifle.

The Steyr is the better choice if you like the Scout concept. Another possibility is a Snout rifle, which can be seen at the Robar Guns website. This one combines the handiness of the scout with the features of a sniper rifle. I prefer this arrangement.

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It only takes one bullet to change your life.
 
Man oh man alive! That QR2 "snout" rifle looks awesome! That is definitely the one I want, with the M1A mag-compatibility. Thanks a lot. Now for the damage. Where is the price listed? Anyone? I know this is gonna hurt...
 
Still wondering if anyone knows the approx. price range of that Robar "Snout" - not on their website.

Also, does anyone have any comments or personal experience with this rifle. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited August 07, 1999).]
 
Son of a buck! I called Robar today, and here's the price breakdown on this beauty:

Basic price for Rem 700 action completely accurized, etc., with ching sling, harris bipod and case for shipping: $2,949.50.

Then add:

-$650.00 more (that's right, 650 more) for the conversion to accept M1A/M14 mags.
-About $50.00 more for shipping & insurance, plus whatever your FFL charges to receive;
-Whatever the cost of the scope and rings you want.

So, you could have a Steyr scout plus some other stuff for this price. But then you wouldn't have a guaranteed 1/2MOA accuracy, so you get what you pay for I guess. This one will remain a dream only for me unfortunately. Sighhh.
http://www.robarguns.com/customr3.html

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited August 09, 1999).]
 
Everyone I've met or talked to or heard of has reported .75 MOA on the Scout, which has a superior feed and extractor to the Remington.

There is no WAY that I couldn't buy an entire rifle that shoots sub MOA for under $650. What's the big woop about it taking M1A mags? Yeah, THAT's real handy!!!

.5 MOA is NOT what the Scout is about! The Scout concept is about practical, handy, reasonable accuracy, delivered powerfully and employed rapidly. Cooper, the guy who came up with the whole thing, has repeatedly said (and I agree with him on this; I don't nod assent to EVERY damn thing the man sez...) that 1.5 MOA is satisfactory in a Scout rifle, so long as it satisfies the other requirements of weight, sights, repeater, sling, handiness of action and stock, utility of trigger. While it is true that a highly accurate rifle breeds confidence in a shooter, please remember that a Scout is NOT intended to be fired from a bench rest, and, consequently, neither its target NOR its shooter will be able to tell the difference between a 1 MOA "scout" and a .5 MOA "scout."
(The price difference between guarenteed 1 MOA and guarenteed .5 MOA is huge, though, especially in a light rifle.)

One of the handiest and most practical hunting rifles I have is a sporterized (not by me!) Springfield with a dark bore that won't shoot better than 2 MOA, off of a bench rest with match ammo. It is possible, however, with the rifle set up the way it is, for a man to obtain that accuracy from a field position in a hurry. It's too heavy and a tad long to be a "scout," but it's a wonderful rifle for its "practical accuracy".

Gimme a practically accurate rifle over a simply inherently accurate rifle, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited August 09, 1999).]
 
Futo Inu, for a great scout rifle that you can build yourself for a fraction of the cost of other scout rifles, you need to check out Ashley Outdoors. Ashley has a kit avail. where you can build your own scout from surplus rifles. I have held two different models one a 98 Mauser and the other a British Enfield. These two rifles have proven actions and plenty of options for custom barrels. Just check out his web-sight and it can better describe the rifles than I can in a short space. www.ashleyoutdoors.com

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The Night Guy at:
Cheaper Than Dirt Inc.
www.cheaperthandirt.com
 
Guys-
I'm sorry, but this discussion amazes me....Long Path is right. As a Steyr Scout owner, I have to question the preoccupation with SubMOA discussion.

Guys-
The crosshairs on the Steyr Scout cover more than 2 MOA. This is not a Sniper Weapon. This was never meant to be a Sniper Weapon. If you can get SubMOA, that's great....If you can realize it, you're world class. But it's hardly the defining characteristic of the Cooper Scout concept.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited August 10, 1999).]
 
You guys are absolutely right of course about the scout rifle concept. It's just an intriguing idea, I think you have to admit, to "have it all" in one package.

Michigan Mike and others: Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited August 11, 1999).]
 
I am in the process of building a "poor man's" scout rifle. I took a Moisin Nagant 91/30 in as a partial payment on some work. The barrel had already be chopped (or maybe hacked is a better word) off to roughly 18.5". After crowning the barrel, I'm going to weld a block of filler into the existing rear sight base, mill flat, dovetail the sides for Weaver type rings, teflon the metal and stick a Tasco pistol scope on it. If it shoots reasonably well I might stick it in a synthetic stock. I have an old beat up Mauser in .308 that doesn't look like it will sell real soon that I'm considering doing the same to. George
 
A scout is a handy rifle for hitting targets a various ranges with lethal effect.
A Scout is one which conforms to COL Cooper's dictums and philosophies.
A Practical Rifle is any rifle which you find can do the job you need it to do.

So choose your weapon. I chose a Enfield .303 cut down to replicate a Jungle Number 5. Iron military rear ghost ring and protected blade front. Lightened stock some, put on and took off bipod, and reparkerized it. I can hit E-type silhouettes at 400m from prone.
Practical- yes; scout- maybe, Scout- NOT. But a very handy rifle with which I can keep the buggers at bay.

Train like you fight: second place is not an option.

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Train like you fight: second place is not an option.
 
I was going to say "I concur with Long Path".. but Rich already said that, so:


I concur with Rich. ;)



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-Essayons
 
I concur with Rob, Rich AND Long Path... This whole Scout rifle thing has been followed by me for at least the last 7 or 8 years.
Nowhere, at no time, has Cooper suggested the rifle had to be match accurate. A Scout is any rifle that meets the weight and length criteria and has the sights as recommended. The iron sights by the way are really nothing more than more than those found on the Garand. The only really new idea in the Scout is the forward-mounted long eye relief scope and oddly enough, Cooper is really unsatisfied with THAT. He wants to develop a scope mount that contains scope adjustments, finding the internal scope adjustments to be too delicate for field usage.
Its a cool collection of idea's. If I wanted a Scout I'd buy a Browning BLR and mount the scope forward and install an after market rear apperture sight.
You'd have 90% of the Scout concept sewed up in one inexpensive package. It would make weight and length and have detachable mags. The only lack would be a spot in the stock to stick you extra mag - oh well, put the damned thing in your pocket and save $1800 or so.

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Of course it doesn't NEED to be match accurate, but all of you guys answer these two questions for me:

1. Do you own ANY rifle that is match accurate, yes or no?
2. Do you compete in benchrest matches, yes or no?

If you answered yes to 1 and no to 2, then you don't need it either. But do you intend to sell your tack-driver? I'll bet not.

Now, add up the total you have spent on All your rifles put together, then go back to my prior post which asked "Isn't it intriguing to 'have it all' in just one rifle?" Now then consider my situation, which is TRULY the "one-rifle" situation (as I currently own none, 'cept for an SKS). As as pointed out, my "one-rifle" situation is not exactly synonymous with Cooper scout rifle concept - But, if you truly were able to own only ONE rifle, I'll bet most of you would shell out the extra grand to get a rifle like that Robar. It's the scout, plus bragging rights.

Now, having said all of that, I'll still probably end up getting the Savage or a psuedo-scout based on a Rem or Ruger or Enfield, because I'm po' (but proud).

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited August 19, 1999).]
 
Futo,

I think you are looking for a "World's Best Rifle", not a "Scout rifle", as defined by Cooper.
That is why our comments are not fitting with your outlook.

don't forget that issues of maintenance go along with extreme precision accuracy, and everyone knows that one uber-accurate rifle won't shoot so incredibly with just any old ammunition. the Scout should be able to be neglected a little and you shouldn't be expecting anything beyond the accuracy that you'll get with the worst common ammo you could come across. Remember the Mission of the Scout.

But, If I could have only one, and $$$ were not an issue, it would be a .300 win-mag from RAD manufacturing.

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-Essayons
 
Futo,

What you're missing here is that the Scout has a 2 power scope with thick reticles. No matter how accurate the rifle may be, you can't demonstrate it with that scope. You can't really mount a high power scope either since the rear sights preclude that and nobody makes a long eye relief with high magnification.

The idea is to hit a man or game animal at 300 yards or so, to have detachable mags that allow you fairly rapid reloads and some firepower, to be compact enough to pack around and to shoulder quickly. Its for practical field usage, not targets.

Anybody have the Link to "Coopers Comments" on the web? Might clarify things for our friend here.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan



[This message has been edited by Keith Rogan (edited August 21, 1999).]
 
First Hand Anecdote:

This weekend I drove down to SC to go hunting, yesterday afternoon we had some down time after lunch and some of the guys were checking there rifles at the range, so I took the scout down there. I have been carting it around in various vehicles, wrapped in blankets, stuck in boxes and even in a safe in a hotel room over the last few weeks, so I thought it might be prudent to check the zero...

I fired two shots at 100 yard from a bench. The range had those BIG bright 4 corners plus the center type zeroing targets. The ones witht he bright orange gridlines and all. Also, there was a bank at 50 yards with some pie plates.
Fromthe bench, the crosshairs on the Scout scope completely covered the center (large) bull at the 100 yard bank. I tried to cover it in the center of the paper and fired. I had no earthly idea where I hit, so I had a guy with a 16x scope check the target and he said "1 inch high, 1 inch left". I fired again, in what I thought was more or less the same spot and had him check. He reported that the two holes were touching.

Comfortable with the results, I stood up, properly engaged the sling and fired an offhand snapshot at a pie-plate.. afterall, that is what the damn gun is for!

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-Essayons
 
Well, I have a Savage Scout 10FCM, and I love it. It does what I ask, nothing more, nothing less. I'm so cheap, I got the scope for free (the owner bought it at a garage sale for $25.00 and didn't have a rifle to fit it on, so he gave it to me). I spent another $55 on the Harris bipod and viola!...a down and dirty scout. As mentioned earlier, it is not the most accurate gun in the world, not that the Savage doesn't shoot well, but the 2x scope and the cheap army 7.62 ammo is not a great accuracy combination. The main thing is it SHOOTS...everytime, all well within acceptable ranges, and it doesn't need to be babied. It IS the one gun concept. It's like the old saying, "Be weary of the man with only one gun, for he probably knows how to use it" (or something like that).

I'm happy with my choice...that's all that really matters. Good luck with yours.
 
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