Scope or rifle. How do I know

H

hbhobby

New member
I have a Rem 700 ADL in 7 mm Rem Mag and the best groups I can get are about 1" @ 100 yards. I am ok with this grouping size but after sitting for a few days or weeks I always have to re-sight in the gun. Is this a rifle problem or a scope issue. I have a Simmons Mag 44 scope (older model, bought in mid 90's). Is there a way to check to see if it is the scope or rifle? Or do I have to buy another scope to see if the gun does the same with different scope? I would put scope on another rifle but only other rifle I have to swap with right now is a .243 Win and there is a slight difference in kick between the two and I don't think that would really tell me if scope was bad or not. Especially if kick is jarring scope out of place

Any help is appreciated
 
For a rifle like yours, I would put a Leupold 3-9x40 scope on it with good steel rings and bases. Currently, I'm using a one-piece base on my model 70 Winchester with that scope. I've had it like this for perhaps17 years and shoot it quite a bit at all times of the year and it never loses it's zero, even though it has a Walnut stock.
 
sight it in and don't move the gun tap on the scope with a lighter or a block wood. then shoot it again to see if it changed. Had the same situation with a simmons the cross hairs where loose.
 
Simmons scopes seem to have varied in quality. I bought a 44Mag 3-10 in 1997 which worked very well on my .30-'06 for well over 200 rounds fired.

sako2's advice seems like an inexpensive and rapid test.

It's always possible that changes in humidity can cause some change in forearm pressure against the barrel. That would affect the sight-in, changing the zero.
 
I believe Art hit the nail on the head with the wood changing over time. If it's too "tight" on one side or under, it can move with temp and humidity changes. It's an easy fix. I'd ditch the scope you have even if it's not the problem. You've got a very good gun and a poor quality scope. It will fail sooner or later and probably when you need it the most.
 
I've seen wood stocks cause that. As atmospheric conditions change the wood expands and contracts causing point of impact to change. Sometimes dramatically, but usually with dramatic changes in weather or altitude.

With a wood stocked rifle zeroed in August at 90 degrees and 80% humidity I'd expect some difference in December at 30 degrees and 30% humidity. Factor in changing altitude by 5000' as well and you could be way off.

But in just a matter of a week or so in the same location and no dramatic weather changes I'd suspect the scope.
 
Just generalizing, Simmons scopes from the 1990s seemed to be of reasonable quality. Since 2000, gripes have become common.

Seems to have been changes in manufacturing location; China vs. Philippines, e.g. Not sure, though.
 
You didn't say if it had a wood or synthetic stock. I have a BDL that did the same thing until I had the barrel free floated.
 
It is wood stock but free floated and glass bed. I ordered a Leopoldo so hopefully that will fix the problem. Thank you all for the advice
 
Scopes (even Simmons) don't magically shift zero just sitting in the corner. If the scope was zeroed and confirmed by several shots, it's not very likely to shift unless bumped significantly or subjected to significant vibration. I found the "expensive name brand" scope on my 7mm mag to be "off" by nearly 12" after it got shifted around and rode 1200 miles lying on it's side even though it was in a decent hardside case.
Take a look at how you transport your rifle, how you shoot(as in: how does barrel heat affect the POI), and how consistent you hold the rifle one shooting trip to another. With a cartridge of the 7 mag's recoil level, seemingly insignificant changes in shooting technique, sand bag placement, or even the type of clothing worn by the shooter can affect the POI.
 
I have an old Leupold, M8, fixed power 4X scope that has to be the best one Leupold EVER made (Ha!). Whenever I have head-scratching concerns on any scope OR rifle that I own (center-fires), I just mount that old scope on it and head to the range. It will tell me what I need to know about optics or loads (total optics confidence with that scope).

If you can find a scope you know with confidence that it will hold its zero no matter what, keep it aside as your "test" scope, or use it with confidence as your back up glass in case of an emergency (temporarily for the fix, then set it aside again). This scope has answered lots of rifle questions for me for many years.

As a parting comment here; my old 4X scope has never been on anything bigger than a 30-06 since I purchased it back in the early 80's, so that caliber's recoil has been the biggest punishment that scope has ever had (FWIW).

Hope your new Leupold works out for you, and as good as my old M8 does for me (when I need to use it!).
 
Simmons scopes were/are low end kit. Savage dumped 'em on their Package rifles for that reason. Far more likely to be the culprit than the rifle.
However, like Mobuck says it's not going to lose zero just sitting.
If the rifle has a wood stock and where it lives is humid/damp, it can change the POI. Wood gains and loses moisture depending on conditions. If the barrel is too close to the stock, the expanding wood can push the barrel.
A free floated barrel guarantees nothing, but it also has nothing to do with loss of zero. Unless it's not floated enough and the storage conditions are wet.
And "about 1" @ 100 yards" is dandy for a hunting rifle. Especially one with excessive felt recoil like a 7mm Mag.
 
May I suggest {in case you haven't}...sight in with 3 shot groups --- let the barrel an receiver cool --- than continue with 3 shot groups till zeroed or have the rifle reach the 17-20 total rounds fired --- If that is the case...clean the bore, fire one fouler shot --- then continue with three shot groups.

Putting a rifle on a rifle rack in the blazing sun, will change POI, due to in differences with the the temperature of the barrel and receiver.
 
A defective scope can change zero just setting in the corner.The easiest and cheapest in the long run is to try another scope which I see your are going to do.Dumping box after box of shells thru it gains you nothing.
 
I would make sure your scope rings are torqued properly. If they are than I would replace the scope with a vortex
 
Since it's glass bedded it's unlikely it's a stock dimensional change issue. The only thing that could possibly be affected is action screw torque and that would be minimal since only the bottom metal is in contact with the wood.

But here's the question- did you buy the rifle with it already bedded, or did this only show up after bedding?
 
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