Scope loose after use at the range

N

ninosdemente

New member
After using the Savage Model 111 30-06 at the range this past weekend. Rifle came as package with a Nikon 3-9x40 BDC. The scope came loose from firing close to 3/4 of the box. I was able to turn the scope clockwise and vice versa bare hand with minimal force. This has happened before (last year), so this is the second time. I was using Winchester Soft Point 155gr both times when this happened. I regularly don't take this rifle to range.

I just recently read online about people using loctite. Well it showed up quite a few times. Is this required/does it really help? Is this a common thing or just the fact that I used 3/4 of a box? Won't be the first time either as usually I fire at least 12 rounds per trip.

The first time it happened I used a non-torque wrench to tighten the screws. Not sure if a torque wrench is a must tool to have.

This is my hunting rifle so I try not to take out much.
 
I've not had that problem in many decades, so I have to wonder if there's some sort of problem in the machining of the rings. And, of course, if you're tightening the screws properly.

So, FWIW, try again with Loctite.
 
Fundamentally locktie is a cover up for a fastener (or fixture) failure.

When you tighten a fastener (screw) it stretches a bit. Its a spring in other words, though very small stretch so we can't see it.

The failure as noted could be the rings that are worng and allowing a compression/expansion that take tension off the spring when the gun fires.

The screws could be junk and go to what is know as Plastic area.

Of they could have been tightener up so much they were put into plastic area area.

Torque wrenches have a 20% error when applied correctly.

Unfortunately what no one has determines for gun screws (or posted in instructions ) is should they be done dry or with (oil usually but anti seize and other lubricant can be listed for correct use)

If a use is important enough to require toque spec(head bolts) the mfg will tell you what to use (or not to use, i.e dry)

In this case, there is an issue with the screws or the rings that needs to be corrected, welding the parts together is not the answer.
 
Thanks RC20 for that info, very helpful indeed. Now, can one purchase "better" screws then? If so, where or would it be better then to get a new set of "better and correct" rings instead? Sucks if the rings are wrong which were already on there when the rifle was purchased.
 
Never use Chi-Com junk mounts, rings, or screws. Nor their cheapo-crapo American-made equivalents. They're junk. Otherwise, you should forgetta 'bout scoping your weapon. :eek:

Learn to use the rifle's god-gifted iron sights which, after much practice, you'll be able to hit any game with out to reasonable ranges - much more so than any 15 Tyros with a 10x optic.

That's a real Life Lesson right there ... assuming you were paying attention and not focused on picking your nose. :rolleyes:
 
I use Vortex Viper rings. About $40
Have a set of Warne on my 284. Again about $40.

I use a little rosin between the rings and scope. Tighten to 20 inch pounds. With purple loctite.

Just makes me feel better.
 
I don't have a problem with feel good but have you ever heard of locktie being used on head bolts?

ND: The screws may very well have been stretched and gone into the plastic range (think of taffy that does not spring back) vs the elastic waste band on your underwear that does.

All it takes is too much enthusiasm or some of the noted flaws in torque wrench (or driver ) use.

I don't know if you can buy just screws at the stores, gun smith might have them.

Brownenlls will have them for sure.

Learn to use the rifle's god-gifted iron sights which, after much practice, you'll be able to hit any game with out to reasonable ranges - much more so than any 15 Tyros with a 10x optic.
Click to expand...

Many guns no longer come with god (or even non god) gifted iron sights, few Savage do for sure.
Even the lower value Savage screws were good enough to test the gun with.

I do have a set of the Savage used rings, ok, shifted to Warne though (I shoot a whole lot, they are steel, mo better).
 
I use loctite that comes in a red container and the liquid is blue. I also use a quality torque ratchet with Inch-Lbs measurement. I think I usually do 25in-lbs
 
I had a scope come loose that I had mounted for my son. My biggest mistake was buying some "Chi-Com" rings to save a couple bucks. The reality is they cost me twice as much after having to buy a better set. After the off brand rings came loose, I bought a set of Weaver's and just for good measure, used blue loctite on the screws. I don't know if the Weaver's rings were the answer or the blue loctite, but they've held strong ever since.

I would guess that a rifle/scope package may have some off brand mounts/rings to help out the profit margin.
 
ninodesmente,
Those are the rings I was talking about. There are other good ones, too.
You could change out the bases, too. A 1 piece Weaver or Picatinny rail, or the 2 piece Burris XT bases, would give you more flexibility in mounting position.
I have never used loctite on rings. I'm a little surprised that people do.
 
Blue thread locker is Loctite 242, temporary, can be removed. The red stuff is permanent and is Loctite 271. There are other grades of course, these are most common.

I usually use a torque screwdriver and set either 20 or 25 inch pounds. It has a 2% accuracy over the working range.

3C
 
nail polish

It is my practice to put a small dab of nail polish on base screws and ring screws on near all mount jobs I do. I mean small too, a tiny dab on on side of the screw or the other, maybe a 1/16th"-1/32" dab.

Ring screws don't need a lot of crank........most folks over crank them, once that happens, as described, their holding power is less.
 
Some people use as mentioned nail polish or torque seal as a witness indication that the screws were torqued and to demonstrate if they have backed off/loosened.

I have generally checked torque on all gun screws after shooting a new weapon and on a scope after the first couple of sessions. Yes, it can result in a minor shift in POI and another sight-in touch up but at least once set and all the parts happy together generally nothing goes loose or wonky again.

3C
 
Unfortunately my rifle does not have iron sights. RC20, you were correct, did see the screws on brownells as you mentioned. Just have to see which one I can get.

Well it seems people have their opinions of using loctite. Did really thought people used it as much as loctite came up when reading online.

Even if I can't find the right screws, I really don't mind in getting some much better rings for the rifle. GarantTd mentioned, don't want to spend twice later.
 
I torque my rings to the recommended tightness of the manufacturer. If you still have problems a little Loctite is not going to hurt. Just don't use any permanent red Loctite.
 
Just to clarify, my set-up that came loose was a 2 piece Redfield mount and some unheard of rings. Everything came loose....rings and mounts. The 2nd setup was Weaver rings that mounted directly to the receiver. I used loctite on the mount screws, but not on the ring screws.
 
Nothing wrong with Loctite, just use the correct one.
I would bet a bottle of 242 that the scope tube would yield before those steel screws/bolts stretched.
I would remove all the screws (bases, rings), degrease the bores (brake cleaner), use some 242 Loctite and tighten the rings evenly.
 
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