Scooter Libby found guilty.

GoSlash27 commented: " Possibly, although her husband was proven correct so if there was an "idiot" involved it wasn't him."

The trouble is, he never filed a formal Report with the CIA, and his comments in other sources were all over the place.

Fact: We found yellow cake uranium in Iraq.

Fact: Inspecting less than 5% of the weapons storage areas in Iraq, we found 500 rounds of chemical munitions, all of which were supposed to have been destroyed by Iraq In Accordance With the UN agreement which ended the Gulf War and saved Saddam Husseins rear end.

Fact: We found information that a nuclear weapons program existed and was being hidden from UN inspectors.

Fact. Iraq tossed out the UN Inspectors.

Now, the Communist Front media and their Democrat Party changed the definition of "Weapons of Mass Destruction" to mean something like, fully operational multiple warhead nuclear missiles at a count down of 10 seconds or less..." or something close.

Moral of the Scooter Libby story? Never ever work for the Government.
Geoff
Who is leery of letting the Media and the Democrats dictate any terms and conditions, especially after the fact.
 
Geoff:

Please provide links for your facts. Government sites preferred, but any actual news source is fine. Your Facts are outside of my ability to confirm them.

The trouble is, he never filed a formal Report with the CIA, and his comments in other sources were all over the place.
This is from Wilson's editorial, originally published in the NY Times, but copied here which does not require registration to view.
Before I left Niger, I briefed the ambassador on my findings, which were consistent with her own. I also shared my conclusions with members of her staff. In early March, I arrived in Washington and promptly provided a detailed briefing to the C.I.A. I later shared my conclusions with the State Department African Affairs Bureau. There was nothing secret or earth-shattering in my report, just as there was nothing secret about my trip.

Though I did not file a written report, there should be at least four documents in United States government archives confirming my mission. The documents should include the ambassador's report of my debriefing in Niamey, a separate report written by the embassy staff, a C.I.A. report summing up my trip, and a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice president (this may have been delivered orally). While I have not seen any of these reports, I have spent enough time in government to know that this is standard operating procedure.
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Why is not having a formal report a problem? He was sent on basically a Yes/No trip.. the answer was "no" orally.. they have records, I'm sure.


Fact: We found yellow cake uranium in Iraq.
The president's statement in the State of the Union was incorrect because it was based on forged documents from the African nation of Niger, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Monday.

"The president's statement was based on the predicate of the yellow cake" uranium "from Niger," Fleischer told reporters. "So given the fact that the report on the yellow cake did not turn out to be accurate, that is reflective of the president's broader statement."
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from CBS News

I can't find anyone saying we found yellow cake, though.. I mean, yeah, there was yellow cake after the 1st gulf war, but nothing in the last 10 years.


Fact: Inspecting less than 5% of the weapons storage areas in Iraq, we found 500 rounds of chemical munitions, all of which were supposed to have been destroyed by Iraq In Accordance With the UN agreement which ended the Gulf War and saved Saddam Husseins rear end.

From the CIA WMD report in 2004:
While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.
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Were they capable? Yes, and could quickly ramp up. same source:
ISG judges, based on available chemicals, infrastructure, and scientist debriefings, that Iraq at OIF probably had a capability to produce large quantities of sulfur mustard within three to six months.
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Now, 500 rounds is EXTREMELY specific. Please point me to a source you are getting this from.

Fact: We found information that a nuclear weapons program existed and was being hidden from UN inspectors.

Not going to refute this. What country that isn't currently Nuclear isn't trying to become Nuclear??!?

Fact. Iraq tossed out the UN Inspectors.

From the BBC Timeline, it agrees that weapons inspectors were tossed out in 1998. And in Nov 2002, they were back in Iraq (US working with UN). Of course, they were pulled out in order to begin the war.

I fail to see how even if true, any of these facts I am asking you to support conclude in Wilson being and "idiot". I think the quote from Ari Fleisher above is indicative that Wilson wanted the truth to come out. It was clearly a mistake to use "those 16 words" in the SotU, and Wilson is in a position to say that they knew that BEFORE they were made, and did so in a very public forum.
 
I would think that in a manner of this sort we would all be on the same side. When you have global enemies that want to destroy your cities, you don't publish the names of your spies, especially ones with a long career in keeping nukes out of the hands of bad guys. The leaking of this agents name and position was a national shame, regardless of what political party did it.
 
BTW, according to this CNN/Gallup Poll, 18% support a pardon, 69% think he should not be pardoned, and 13% have no opinion.. (Page 11 of the linked PDF, question 28, results +/- 3% accuracy based on poll size)

Anyone know how long it takes for sentencing to occur, and WHY it takes so long??
 
On the yellow cake uranium:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/8/112447.shtml

Which quotes the NYT as well.

On the chemical weapons:

I will work on that one.

As for the failure to file a written report: The US government just sent two border patrol agents to prison, for giving only a verbal report on a shoot to two supervisors, who were present when the shooting occured.

Geoff
Who doesn't keep his references at his finger tips.
 
Hmmm, the BBC to whom Jafar made that claim has a more independent analysis.

How does that make Wilson an idiot? The statement by Jafar was basically: Why would we go to Niger when we have 500 tons right here in Baghdad?

Am I reading it wrong or are you saying Wilson was supported by the head of the Iraqi Nuclear Program?

I think the reason they didn't ASK for a written report (for surely he would have given it to them) is to not have a paper trail. I have no idea if that was right or wrong.
 
Geoff Timm,
Following the 1991 Gulf War, the International Atomic Energy Agency removed all known Iraqi stocks of highly enriched uranium and plutonium, in accordance with the provisions of UN Security Council Resolution 687. As of 2002 the only positively confirmed nuclear material left in Iraq is 1.8 tons of low-enriched uranium and several tons of natural and depleted uranium. The material is in a locked storage site at the Tuwaitha nuclear research facility near Baghdad. Under the terms of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, this stock of material is checked once a year by an IAEA team. The most recent check was in January 2002, and none of the material had been tampered with at that time.
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/tuwaitha.htm

Seriously, you should check with a credible source or two. Newsmax ain't exactly a reference.
 
Newsmax ain't exactly a reference
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Unfortunately, the world is full of people that want to believe things so badly that all they need is for another dishonest person to write the lie down on paper to consider it concrete proof. How do you think propaganda sites stay in business. :(
 
You know, I was expecting this topic to be completely one sided (for Libby) given the nature of this forum. I'm glad to see or rather to have read very informative comments from both sides of the story and for maintaining a reasonable amount of respect for everyones opinion. I'm glad to be a member of this forum.

Cheers.
 
What with one thing or the other, it seems as if the Bush Administration might be feeling some heat, getting desperate.

As for the AG's mea culpa, that bit about things not being done right and his acceptance of responsibility and blame, it's beginning to sound suspiciously like the line peddled by former AG Janet Reno, in the aftermath of Waco, which some readers might remember.
 
Newsmax ain't exactly a reference
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This, from the mission statement for GlobalSecurity.org

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/overview/mission.htm

(last paragraph)

This website is compiled by human beings, mostly by compiling or summarizing what other human beings have written. Therefore, it most likely contains some mistakes and/or potential misinterpretations and should be used primarily as a way to search quickly for basic information and information sources. It should not be viewed as an exhaustive, "last-word" source for critical applications (such as those requiring legally defensible information). For critical applications, it is best to use this document to find sources, and then to obtain the original documents and/or talk to the authors before depending too heavily on a particular piece of information.
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So I guess, in their own words, GlobalSecurity.org "ain't exactly a reference" either.

In addition, Geoff did state "Which quotes the NYT as well." and we all know the NYT ain't exactly a right wing rag.
 
jimpeel,
The argument being "well my biased propaganda source is every bit as credible as your expert reference" because GlobalSecurity is intellectually honest enough to admit they might be incorrect? That's well beyond specious.

Alrighty then, let's go straight to the horse's mouth and have a look-see at the documents straight from the IAEA themselves.

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/MediaAdvisory/2002/ma_iraq_0612.shtml
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIraq/unscreport_131005.shtml
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/PressReleases/2005/prn200514.html
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIraq/IraqUNSC14072003.pdf
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/PressReleases/2003/prn200304.html
And here's the kicker:
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/News/2006/tuwaitha.html#

To summarize:
There was a stockpile of yellowcake at Tuwaitha. Some of it was even purchased from Niger....back in 1981! There was never any additional material or activity at this complex beyond what we were aware of. It was under rigid control leading up to the war, we bombed it flat, and looters came along who found the barrels more useful than their contents so now they don't need night lights.
That's it. End of story.
Not only does this not substantiate the claim of WMDs in Iraq, it doesn't even have anything to do with Wilson!
So there you have it. Newsmax is lying to you. Let's get back to the subject.
 
At the beginning of the house hearing, Rep. Waxman said that Gen. Michael Hayden, the current head of the CIA (appointed by Bush), has confirmed that Valerie Plame was a covert agent at the time she was outed.

" During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status at the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert."

There, now you guys can shut up about her not being covert. The CIA director has made a statement.
 
Foob said, "There, now you guys can shut up about her not being covert. The CIA director has made a statement."

So, why did Richard Armatige know she was CIA?

So, why is Richard Armatige not in jail?

Geoff
Who notes that secret means secret.
 
The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.
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I remember this report. We all had a big laugh over it at the expense of the Bush apologists when they triumphantly reported it.
If those things were WMDs, then so is that can of oven cleaner under your sink. Maybe we should invade your house next? :rolleyes:

Look...the rationale for invasion changed many times over the course of this war, but the idea that we were invading in order to remove old dented rusty expired chemical munition shells from the desert *wasn't* one of 'em.
I could picture it tho'. It would've been a hoot.
colin_powell_at_the_un_feb_5_2003.jpg

These old shells are out there, a ticking timebomb waiting to give western children and small animals tummy-aches...
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