School me on Broomhandles

Yes the bolt stop is a bit scary. I think several guns from the same era have similar issue, some are better than the others of course. One example I remember is the Luger p08. The big pin at the back is the only thing that stop the bolt and toggle from flying back into the shooter's face. The pin is stout, but it can fail too. Most accidents are caused by people using improper replacement, including wood dowel.

What I can do is inspect it closely and avoid shooting hot loads, if I want to continue firing my c96. Certainly wear good eye protection too.

-TL
 
I don't know about Lugers with the receiver axle made of wood, but I have never heard of a steel one failing. One of the gun types that can have the slide come back at the shooter is the double link Colt series, designed by the revered John Browning. If the slide stop (Colt's name for the "wedge") breaks or is missing, or the slide breaks, there is nothing to stop the slide from coming straight back. That was one of the concerns of the Army when they tested those guns and one of the things they demanded be corrected.

Jim
 
Learned this from our gunsmithing instructor.

The original Luger pin has snug fit and proper heat treatment. It seldom fails. The problem is when people lost the pin. Since it is such a common shape, people would use things of all sorts as replacement. Drill rod, nail, wood dowel, or even do without. Those improper replacements would fail quickly and sometimes the consequence be ugly.

Perhaps it could be a bit worse than the broomhandle as the c96's bolt stop is a lot difficult to find improper replacement for, due to its odd shape.

-TL
 
Far be it from me to dispute a gunsmithing instructor, but even if the axle was made of chewing gum, I don't see how the breechblock could come back at the shooter, as it would be stopped by the frame abutment. I tried to assemble a Luger without the axle, but can't do it, because the rear toggle drops down and won't let the receiver come back far enough to install the sideplate.

As for replacing the axle, if I ever had to do it and had no proper part, I would not hesitate to make one from drill rod and harden it properly.

Jim
 
Tried my own Luger. You are right that there is small abutment on the frame that is in the way of the bolt. But if the pin fails, the gun becomes a direct blow back. The bolt toggle assembly can build up enough momentum to shear the small abutment, and the hunk of metal could fly.

I also tried assembly the gun with the pin. I can do it if I let the toggle spring unhook. But I don't see how the gun can fire. Without the pin and spring, the bolt won't go in battery and the striker can be cocked. Perhaps I misunderstood what the instructor. He could mean the owner did without the proper part and put in his make-shift replacement.

Thanks for the info.

-TL
 
Even if the Luger were fired without the axle, I don't think the breechblock would be going fast enough to break out that frame abutment, especially since it would have been slowed by the toggles hitting the receiver ramps. It is just MHO, but I think your instructor was blowing smoke about someone replacing a steel gun part with a wooden one, or knowing of axles failing.

I also suspect he knew little about the Luger; in that he is not alone. A self-styled "Luger expert" on another site once described the gun as a "blowback" and "like the Pedersen rifle". Not true of course; the Luger is a recoil operated, locked breech pistol, like most pistols in the larger calibers.

Jim
 
I beg to differ. My instructor has every respect of mine and other students. He is no internet expert of some sort.

I didn't say a Luger is direct blow back. What I meant is IF the pin fails the pistol is EQUIVALENT to a direct blow back action. My instructor didn't say that either. It is how I understand the situation. Without the pin, it is no longer a locked breech action anymore. The pin is stout and snug for a good reason.

Anyway, I think I am going to stop here as I have deviated from the main discussion for too long. My apology.

-TL
 
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