Scary: Bush: Military may have to help if bird flu breaks out

My wife is a certified laboratory assistant (CLA), works at a local hospital, handles infectious materials and other bio-agents all day, every day. We have had this discussion. This is my understanding of our discussions...

Currently, the "bird Flu" is transmitted by birds to other birds. Occasionally it jumps cross species, and that species may become infected. What the fear among health professionals is that when (not if) the virus mutates, it may mutate so as to affect human to human transmission. Should that happen, then we will have a problem.

Currently, the standard strategem of infecting chicken eggs to induce the embryo to produce anti-bodies has failed, as the infected embryo has died before production of anti-bodies has started. No anti-bodies, no inoculating agent. If such a program begins yielding results, they will be only a little helpful should the strain mutate across species. A new strain of anti-bodies would have to be produced to be more effective.

Currently, this virus appears to have a 40% to 60% infection rate. The fatality rate appears to be 20% to 40%. A cross species mutation may not stay the same. It could be worse or not as infectious/fatal.

Upland bird (not the source, but a problematic carrier) and waterfowl (carrier) season is coming right up. This is the height of human-bird interaction, and will be the time that the medical profession will be most watchful. Containment via quarantine, would be haphazard at best, considering the mobility of our modern society.

Proper hygiene is of course the first (last and best) step. Consider however, how much of our supplies are transshipped from place to place - trucker gets infected at plant and infects everyone he contacts along the way to the wharehouse - again from there to the store. Consider the implications of engaging such a quarantine. Best case scenario is that contagion will have spread nationwide before first case incidents begin to be reported. Worst case is worldwide contagion within the 3 to 7 day period before onset of verifiable symptoms - now add 4-7 days more for culturation and verification, depending upon local medical capabilities.

The vehicle of an epidemic transmuting to a pandemic is the mobility of the society that is infected. We live in a time of very high mobility. Short of stopping all transportation worldwide, there is no way to contain such an outbreak (this assumes the mutated strain is as virulent as suspected). The medical professionals involved in Disease Control know this. They don't worry about it (at least not like people here are doing), as it is beyond the realm of their control. The best that can be done is after action control and suppression as the contagion spreads.

Best advice? Utilize proper hygiene and stop worrying. If it happens, it happens and worrying about what you cannot control does nothing productive. On the contrary, such worry (stress) often weakens the immune system and makes one more vulnerable to infectious attack.
 
Sending in the military to perform "law enforcement" and deal with a potential outbreak of a virus for which we may likely have a treatment (Tamiflu), or just about any other crisis that may arise? Its a pretext for a power grab by the executive branch and most Americans are buying into it.

As a former active duty and current reserve soldier I can tell you that if anyone tried to use the military to make an unconstitutional "power grab" I would to what I swore I would and defend the CONSTITUTION not the executive branch, with my life.
 
Blackwater-
Devil's in the details:

Most of us consider a revocation of Posse Comitatus on the weak excuse of a hurricane or "possible" flu pandemic to be the very definition of an "unconstitutional power grab".

If you're saying that the line in the sand is a President dismissing the Congress and the Supreme Court and declaring himself Emperor for Life, I think you're on pretty safe ground. That's not the way the Constitution is being or will be trampled in our lifetimes.
Rich
 
Lowkey, I wish you had posted just that originally, your first post was quite inflammatory toward the military and made no mention of politics. I am retired military, my 3 sons all Air Force and 1 has been to Iraq 3 times and headed there yet again. Most of my relatives have been either military or law enforcement and we feel serving our country is a duty of ones personnal choice. I have never done or been involved in anything that I am or should be ashamed of while with the Air Force or otherwise. I agree with the Libs in charge the military is a tool of power for them aimed at not world freedom or national defense but controlling U.S. citizens. Waco should tell the story of how the Libs look at military usage and if the Clintons get in the whitehouse again it will once again be known as the outhouse and we will be at the bottom of the outhouse hole!

This is where a conservative controlled Senate and Congress needs to grow a pair and protect the constitution and citizens. Also thankfully we get 2 new supreme court justices who will hopefully be true conservatives and follow the law of the constitution. I do not wish the military to get involved in police work and if a quarantine is implemented ( hope not ) let the police or worse case the national guard which is state run for the most part (though can be called up by the feds) do the work. The regular military has no place in this and are under enough pressure with the middle east.

I do not advocate W using the troops for the flu epidemic and our military doesn't need to be involved. I do not believe most in our military would embrace this and the backlash may be the end of voluntary enlistment and re-enlistment. I think as I stated the left has put Bush in panic mode and due to criticism from Katrina he is now operating in crisis management mode which isnt good and needs to ignore these idiots as he has fallen right into their trap! Bush is grasping at straws and in a high speed wobble due to the constant Bush bashing left.
 
I do not believe most in our military would embrace this and the backlash may be the end of voluntary enlistment and re-enlistment.

I am not so sure. New Orleans showed us that when the order is given, guns WILL be confiscated by LEO's. And we thought that would never happen.
 
NH Yankee

Lowkey, I wish you had posted just that originally, your first post was quite inflammatory toward the military and made no mention of politics.

My mistake, and I apologize. Sometimes I don't realize that not everyone can follow my thought process, which tends to lean towards the obscure on occasion.

Regarding the remainder of your comments in your last post...I agree. The conservative controlled congress needs to grow a pair and do what we elected them to do.
 
From the thinking out loud dept....

Maybe I should invest in some stocks -- like companies that make those hand-sanitizing products, facial masks, latex/nitrile gloves and respiratory drugs. I doubt the hand-sanitizers will be all that effective against a virus however.

Given our mobile society and the internet availability, I'd think that you'd want to encourage people to use shop-online services from their pharmacies and get products delivered. Of course there's a chance the pharmacist himself or the delivery driver gets infected too.

Queries for the biotech types:
1. As I recall, a virus can survive being "dried out" and will come back with moisture at a later time -- or is that a bacterium?

2. Do the medical grade UV lights kill viruii? I would have concerns about UV induced mutations, but I'm not a biotech either.

3. Cobalt radiation is used to "sterilize" food products for room temperature storage. Anyone know if that could be used on shipping containers of food and medicines to prevent spreading infections?
 
Bill-
I'll try to answer, though I believe everyone's concerns are greatly overblown. To date, virtually all cases of Avian Flu in humans came after direct contact with infected birds and poultry.

1. As I recall, a virus can survive being "dried out" and will come back with moisture at a later time -- or is that a bacterium?
Certain strains of each are resistant to drying. Avian Flu is among these...vectors are currently assumed to include airborne infection.

2. Do the medical grade UV lights kill viruii? I would have concerns about UV induced mutations, but I'm not a biotech either.
99% effective, though it has very poor penetrating ability thru dirt or dust, for instance.

3. Cobalt radiation is used to "sterilize" food products for room temperature storage. Anyone know if that could be used on shipping containers of food and medicines to prevent spreading infections?
I'd assume so. But where would you get the agent? How would you protect yourself from the radiation? Sounds like the cure is more dangerous than the problem.

Avian Influenza is easily killed, since it has a lipid (fat) envelope which is necessary for it to enter cells. The envelope is readily disrupted by any household product designed to dissolve/disperse grease. The most common is soap and water....yes, S&W renders the virus impotent. Other agents would include household cleaners like Fantastic, Lysol or the ubiquitous Chlorine Bleach.

Low grade heat is also thought to kill the virus (or at least cut its numbers down significantly)....heat as low as 90 degrees has been used in infected buildings with some success.

Interestingly, a recent study demonstrates that air purifiers which create positive ions actually are quite effective at killing the little beasties. This has to be taken with a grain of salt since the the study was conducted in collaboration with a major manufacturer of such devices.

Rich
 
Antipitas ask your wife to cover gene splitting/jumbling with you.

In all of the Southeast Asian countries where these (Avian/Swine) Flu strains originate the sale of animals is the major issue. Due to lack of adequate refrigeration and economics, food animals are sold "on the hoof" to most families. Meat vendors keep chickens, ducks, pigs, dogs, rats, snakes, turtles and other live food animals together and handle them indiscriminately all day long. Mix in literally thousands of people, sick people in particular, who accept these virus' and incubate them.

Virus do not act like normal species where replication is through sex or cell division. Virus' replicate by taking over host cells and making the cell replicate the virus' structure. Due to the mechanics of the process, virus accept and use parts of the host DNA structure and make them their own. Bird virus' are just a step away from Homo Sapien virus'.

Taking this process into account and adding to the fact that a LARGE percentage of the population in SE Asia is already sick with respiratory illness (look up the current Tuberculosis problem in China) and you have a semi-perfect distribution system.

China is crowded. Think of Manhattan at 8am ALL DAMN DAY. They have a very low level of personal transportation optoins like personal automobiles so the virus will be all over the trains, buses and taxis and everyone will touch or breath viable virus. China no longer inhibits personal travel within the country or externally to any real degree. So not only will the virus spread very rapidly inside of China, people like me who go there monthly, plus regional business travel will launch the virus worldwide in days once it will travel human to human readily.

There is only one hope, that the virus mutates itself to benign-ness.

Even if this was likely, it only delays the fact that this breeding ground will likely exist intact for decades to come and will churn out a new virus crisis almost annually.
 
Back
Top