SAW DISCOVERY CHAN. LAST NIGHT,FBI:FIREFIGHT IN MIAMI 1986!!? What happened??

Read about this story back in the 80s, saw the movie when it first came out. Feds were two gung ho, not properly armed for a feloney car stop, up against some super bad asses ex military types (yes there are bad veterans too) these guys were cold blooded murderers.
Feds should have had some laws rocket launchers to soften up the BGs car. The thugs had a mini-14 Ruger and it stole the show on who had the badest gun. Guess the movie shows the FBI trainees what not to do in a feloney car stop.

Jim
 
I believe the Miami shootout was more mindset than anything else.

The mobile surveillance undertaken in attempt to locate Platt and Matix was essentially a fishing expedition. It was a hunch, based on analysis of Platt's & Matix's patterns of operating, and any encounter would be strictly chance. The agents knew this and it affected their mindset accordingly. This faulty mindset affected the agent's preparedness and tactics.

There were FBI agents assigned to the stakeout, who were armed with 9mm MP5 SMGs, but who didn't arrive on scene until after the gun battle was over.

Also, hard body armor back then wasn't as light and comfortable as it is now. I can understand their desire not to wear it on a warm April day. Would it have been smarter to wear it? You bet. But humans don't like discomfort, especially if these agents didn't believe they'd actually spot Platt & Matix.

The FBI Academy's Officer Survival Group is the FBI's response to the tactics failures demonstrated at Miami. It hasn't received anywhere near the publicity that the corrective actions for ammo selection has.

Had SA Dove been better equipped with a JHP cartridge whose bullet would've passed through Platt's heart instead of stopping just short, I believe it would have compensated for all the preparedness and tactics failures. In this case, a better piece of equipment would have probably kept Hanlon, Grogan and Dove from being shot.



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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Shawn: Good points. It is a great if unfortunate example of this: if you think you're gonna be in a gun fight, make a shotgun or rifle your primary weapon (I'm sure Col. Cooper said it better). Those BG's were bent on destruction,and didn't care what happened to themselves or anyone else. Facing an enemy like that, you'd better be armed with something that's gonna stop them RIGHT NOW, and that might not be any usual duty gun.

God forbid any of us face murderous dirtbags like that. Especially alone. Watch your six!
 
This fascinating gunfight has been covered in many public avenues, but all differ to some degree. The discovery channel special has good dramatizations but really it shows the least detail about the gunfight.

DISCLAIMER: I don't know all the details, I am not privy to the insider's training circulars at Quantico, I may be wrong, and I mean NO slight to the FBI agents in this gunfight.

The made for TV movie is very accurate, but still not 100%. They show David Soul/Michael Platt's character shooting a full-auto Mini-14. Every other account said it was a semi-auto rifle. Despite this, the movie is well worth renting if you can find it in a video store. I remember when it first came out about '88. The movie begins with a plinker out in the swamps near Miami ambushed by Platt/Matix and they shoot him and take his guns and car. Edmund lesson #1: If at all possible, bring friends when shooting in the boonies, keep loaded guns on your person at all times, and be wary of strangers approaching!

None of the tv accounts shows the 8th agent who put his handgun on his car seat, and after a collision where it was thrown to unknown whereabouts, he spent the rest of the gunfight looking for it in the grass at the side of the road. Edmund lesson: have at least one firearm securely attached to your person when going in harm's way!

One agent joined the battle with his backup after realizing his handgun on his car seat had been thrown to unknown wherebouts. His backup was a .38 snubbie. Not much but far more than nothing. Edmund lesson: backups are good to have!

Supervisor Mcneill had a shotgun in his patrol car but left it there and entered the battle with his .357 loaded with .357s. At one point he was shot in the hand and ducked behind a car to reload. He reloaded 2 loose cartridges and decided he had to get back into the fight. Ayoob mentions in one of his 2 Ayoob Files about this gunfight that McNeill couldn't remember for a moment which way the cylinder rotated, and wasn't sure where the 2 loaded chambers needed to be for a "BANG" instead of a "click". When he popped back up, Platt shot him and grazed his spinal column. Edmund lessons: Make time to bring the long arm to the gunfight if at all possible, use speedloaders for a revolver (!), know your firearm, and know some disabled-limb manipulations.

Agents Grogan and Dove were blasting through the rear of the perps' Monte Carlo with 9mm handguns. This really doesn't impress me as being a very sound tactic. Handguns are iffy stoppers to begin with. Going through auto glass and structure will reduce the effectiveness even more.

Agent Grogan lost his glasses early in the car chase/collisions. Virtually helpless in the gunfight, he was cut down by Platt's Mini-14 fire. Edmund lessons: Bring spare glasses, and have each pair with keeper straps to have them stay on your head where they belong. I'm also amazed that Grogan, an ex-FBI swat team leader and very experienced agent, didn't have a long arm in his car.

Agent Dove's 9mm handgun was either hit sometime in the fight or he was slide locked open when Platt shot him to death. Once again a backup may have been helpful. More ammo couldn't hurt.

Agent Mireles had some real fire in the gut, shooting the 870 one handed and shooting the gunfight's final shots, some .38 from his .357 into the bad guys while they were seated in an FBI car trying to start it.

Platt at one time got out of his car after Mireles emptied his shotgun. Platt shot at him 3 times with a .357 but missed all 3 times. This was not shown in the discovery special.

From all I've read on this gunfight, the FBI never seemed to prepare for an all out gunfight with seriously armed and trained adversaries. Most FBI arrests are clean takedowns with no shots fired. OK, that's good news, but no reason to get complacent. Unfortunately this gunfight was a wake-up call to law enforcement across the country. Many lessons included:
-The bad guy can be fatally wounded and still live long enough to clean your clock.
-Handguns are marginal fight stoppers. Period.
-Long guns are more powerful and much easier to hit with.
-Training should include knowledge of shooting/firearm manipulation from weird positions/situations.
-Knowledge of what bullets do through different materials like auto glass is important.
-Some really bad $h!t can happen in a gunfight. Murphy's Law in action.
-Just because someone else has the MP-5 is no reason for you to rely on just a handgun.
-Use every edge possible and plan ahead. I get the impression that the FBI team didn't play enough "what if" preparation before the stakeout.
-Just because the 1980 FBI statistics say the average police gunfight is only 2.3 shots doesn't mean you're going to have an average day.

I'm guessing that the agents were victims of the old school of firearms training very prevalent in law enforcement up until the late 80's: static shooting at bulls eyes from unrealistic distances with not enough attention to gunfight dynamics and contingency methods.

I am sorry if I sound harsh towards the agents in this gunfight. I sincerely give them a thumb's up for making the best of a very difficult day. They didn't give up and they sure didn't run. HOOAH.

Edmund
 
My Dad taught me to never shoot a rabbit in the body, he will probably make into a hole before he dies. He said a head shot will stop him every time.
This should also apply to rabbits that are shooting back.
 
IMO, there was good fallout from the Miami debacle. The FBI concluded that their ammo failed, and thus issued specs to the ammo companies for better ammo. The result is today's lineup of Hydra-Shok, Gold Dot, Starfire, Black Talon, etc, "high tech" bullets.
Just remember; there is no "Magic Bullet." "Stopping power" is in placing good hits.

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
If the bad guys would have been using a .308 or shotgun instead of a .223, there would have been a bunch more dead FBI agents in the street.
Mattox was smiling and inserting a mag into the Mini-14 when the FBI passed him going in opposite direction. He was looking forward to the fight! I feel sorry for the agent's families but these guys should have been better prepared. I carry better and more powerful weapons than the FBI did.

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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." H.L. Mencken
 
One of the best blow-by-blow accounts in print can be found in John Ross's "Unintended Consequences". The other written source is Ayoob's stuff, also not bad.

Ayoob pointed out that one initial factor not covered in the films was that the whole insane convoy screeched to a halt in dirt, throwing up a large initial dust cloud that helped obscure the first few seconds. That and all the main Fed handguns falling off the seats and rolling around on the floor didn't help much initially, and it all went downhill from there.

All the reports agree on one thing: Agent Mirales' final "charge" (actually a forward stagger while firing) to the car Platt was trying to start ended with Mirales endlessly clicking a dry wheelgun at Platt's corpse. Somebody else finally got him to stop. (Matix was passed out, dead or otherwise beyond threat while Mirales was plugging Pratt.) In other words, Mirales had "devolved" into a machine capable of front-sight-on-target and "squeeze trigger", and that's IT. This isn't meant as a slur on him; the point is, if he'd had a high-cap he would definately have unloaded every round into the BGs.

This is a critical lesson for anyone facing charges because they "emptied the gun" - under the stress of combat, you too may "devolve" in similar fashion, especially if you're wounded but often enough even that's not necessary.

Mirales got a medal, and rightfully so. We'd get a grand jury if we're *lucky*, full-tilt criminal charges all too often, for showing similar levels of "bloodthirstyness".

This "combat stress" defense needs broader understanding and use, so long as the initial shoot is clean.

Jim
 
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