I saw a documentry on the famous FBI firefight last night.I have only heard about it in passing till now.What exactly happened? They said the main BG Platt i think took 11 hits! What were they shot with?9mm or .38? Both?It seemed that the main BG Platt was a real prick.How does somebody take 11 hits and keep fighting?They also said he was mortally wounded almost from the start of the fight. Also said that he had like 3m pints of blood in his chest cavity from internal bleeding.I'am no doctor but that sounds like a mojor problem to immediate survival. Is this why the 9mm is so despised by "stopping power" crowds? It seemed the bullet did all a handgun bullet could be expected to do.Any insight on this would help.What was the rifle Platt used couldn't make it out.
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SAW DISCOVERY CHAN. LAST NIGHT,FBI:FIREFIGHT IN MIAMI 1986!!? What happened??
- Thread starter 45automan
- Start date
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
http://foia.fbi.gov/shooting.htm
The gun was a Ruger Mini-14.
The 11 hits were not all major. No CNS hits.
Platt would have bled out but had enough time to keep going.
A giant controversy over ammo and tactical errors.
The gun was a Ruger Mini-14.
The 11 hits were not all major. No CNS hits.
Platt would have bled out but had enough time to keep going.
A giant controversy over ammo and tactical errors.
This was made into a TV movie called "In the Line of Duty..." It has the most astonishing TV film gunfight I've ever seen. Stars Ronnie Cox, David Soul, and Michael Gross. Usually comes around on Lifetime or A&E. Catch it if you ever get the chance. The ten minute gunfight at the end is done in exquisite detail and is used as an FBI training film.
Not sure of particular weapons involved. I believe mostly .38's. FBI changed to high-cap auto. 1 agent did have a shotgun. He was seriously wounded in the forearm. He finally prevailed.
Platt was a former Ranger. He was armed with a Mini-14. He killed 2 officers while the were attempting to reload. They had already been wounded.
I believe this was said by the Agent with the shotgun. Platt was trained to accept casualties and risk taking. Law-enforcement is not.
Platt was cornered had nothing to lose. They had already committed at least 2 murders and several bank robberies.
There is a made for tv movie about this and several documentaries. The movie, I'm sure, had David Soul as Mattox and, I may be mistaken, Gerald McCraney (sp?) as Platt.
These two where cowardly scum and got what they deserved. The Agents were in No Way JBT's. They were after 2 extremely dangerous murderers. They used their years of experience and a "hunch" to corner them and were offered violence. They could not let them get away.
Their families are in my prayer.
IMO,
Sgt.K
Most of what I have written was taken from the television media. The FBI may have some reports at their websites. www.fbi.gov
Platt was a former Ranger. He was armed with a Mini-14. He killed 2 officers while the were attempting to reload. They had already been wounded.
I believe this was said by the Agent with the shotgun. Platt was trained to accept casualties and risk taking. Law-enforcement is not.
Platt was cornered had nothing to lose. They had already committed at least 2 murders and several bank robberies.
There is a made for tv movie about this and several documentaries. The movie, I'm sure, had David Soul as Mattox and, I may be mistaken, Gerald McCraney (sp?) as Platt.
These two where cowardly scum and got what they deserved. The Agents were in No Way JBT's. They were after 2 extremely dangerous murderers. They used their years of experience and a "hunch" to corner them and were offered violence. They could not let them get away.
Their families are in my prayer.
IMO,
Sgt.K
Most of what I have written was taken from the television media. The FBI may have some reports at their websites. www.fbi.gov
I've read one of the FBI reports. One perp had Mini-14 and the other had a shotgun with #6 birdshot. The #6 birdshot caused flesh wounds while .223 did the most damage. They were killed with a .357mag while trying to drive away. Both perps where in the military, I believe thats where they met as MPs.
Shok
Shok
Ruben Nasser
New member
In my modest opinion, you don't go after BGs like that (they knew exactly who they were, and their training) armed with small 38 spl. revolvers, and no body armor!! They should have taken AR 15 carbines (...or MP 5's) in case there was an open space shooting (wich eventually happened), and powerfull sidearms (after all the shooting, more than 110 rounds fired, what do you think of hi-cap pistols? I know it is very unusual, but it may happen...). Did you know that Mattix was deaf after Platt's first few .233 shots inside the car? Surely Platt's ears were also ringing like hell, and this helped the FBI agents a bit. Spl. Agent Mereles (severely wounded himself) finished Platt with his short-barreled S&W 38 spl., but this was after the BG was mortally wounded. After this shooting there was a FBI circus blaming everything (like the 9mm silvertip) but themselves for the gross outcome. I think this kind of s***t is always going to happen sometime, you can increase the odds in your favor, but you can never be sure if you are going after gun-proficient BGs.
The FBI agents used a combination of .38 Specials (no .357 Mags) and 9mm S&Ws. The perps were finally stopped by Agent Mirales (sp) who finished them off by emptying his .38 Special through the car windshield. Mirales had been the last agent left in the fight, and had used a 12 gauge pump to wound both perps despite having the use of only one arm.
All in all, a monumental screwup on the FBI part. Their tactics were bad, they hadn't anticipated a fight at that time, most of the agents had their weapons under their legs (for easy access) when they rammed the perp's car, losing their weapons in the process. To cover it up, the FBI initially blamed all the problems on the Winchester Silvertip which performed exactly as designed, penetrating the upper arm and crossing the torso to fatally wound Platt with a circulatory hit (so much for the idea that blood loss leads to incapacitation).
All in all, a monumental screwup on the FBI part. Their tactics were bad, they hadn't anticipated a fight at that time, most of the agents had their weapons under their legs (for easy access) when they rammed the perp's car, losing their weapons in the process. To cover it up, the FBI initially blamed all the problems on the Winchester Silvertip which performed exactly as designed, penetrating the upper arm and crossing the torso to fatally wound Platt with a circulatory hit (so much for the idea that blood loss leads to incapacitation).
I saw that show too. My question is this. They knew that they were up against violent criminals since they (The BG's) had already hit several banks and armored trucks prior to there encounter. I know that it was a chance encounter when they caught up with them. Knowing what they knew why didn't they have heavier weaponery in their cars. They knew they were gonna catch up to them eventually. These guys were dangeruos and were vicious in their attacks. The FBI should have been better prepared. Don't you think so?
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***Torpedo***
Life is great if you can survive it!
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***Torpedo***
Life is great if you can survive it!
The FBI intended on being better prepared and, I believe, heavier weapons were available . . . in the trunks of their vehicles. The agents had armor, etc. Unfortunately, the perps were headed towards a residential area, had spotted the Bureau, and the FBI decided to take them down before getting there. They failed to anticipate that they wouldn't be able to control when and where the takedown would take place.
I was kind of struck by the fact that the FBI knew that the robbers were packin some good heat - Ruger Mini-14 in .223 and that they didn't carry corresponding firearms to arrest these mean robbers. They appeared to be carrying revolvers primarily and maybe a couple of Sigs or Browning HPs.
From what was depicted, hardly any of the standard 9mm, 40SW, nor 45 ACP cartridges would have been successful. They needed armor and car door piercing rounds.
They surrounded the robbers' car and were shooting from the rear and front primarily through glass and metal.
I was really proud of the latino agent who with his blown apart arm, used his good arm to rack his pump action shotgun to stop them from leaving the scene and finally finished the robbers off at point blank range with his revolver.
That was a great show.
But I will tell you that for many of the current agents in the federal service, they are still not training and practicing as much as they should.
My SA friends go the range once ever couple of months just to qualify! Except for my DEA SA friend who trains weekly and rocks and rolls with BGs every month, too many of our federal agents aren't ready.
That was a lesson about being prepared and having the right tools for the job. Glad I finally saw how it went down.
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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
From what was depicted, hardly any of the standard 9mm, 40SW, nor 45 ACP cartridges would have been successful. They needed armor and car door piercing rounds.
They surrounded the robbers' car and were shooting from the rear and front primarily through glass and metal.
I was really proud of the latino agent who with his blown apart arm, used his good arm to rack his pump action shotgun to stop them from leaving the scene and finally finished the robbers off at point blank range with his revolver.
That was a great show.
But I will tell you that for many of the current agents in the federal service, they are still not training and practicing as much as they should.
My SA friends go the range once ever couple of months just to qualify! Except for my DEA SA friend who trains weekly and rocks and rolls with BGs every month, too many of our federal agents aren't ready.
That was a lesson about being prepared and having the right tools for the job. Glad I finally saw how it went down.
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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
What's most amazing is what happened after Matix was shot in the face by McNeill. The 158 gr. bullet entered the right side of his face, fractured his skull and bruised the right side of his brain. He still managed to get out of his car and go over to the dead agents' car, which Platt was trying to start in order to get away.
The FBI did produce their own version of the events that transpired on that day in
April,1986.Last I heard it was still being used for new agents at Quantico.
And interesting sideline is that Michael Gross -who played Mattix (I think)has stated publically that he is a member of HCI.
Scouts Out,
Mark P
April,1986.Last I heard it was still being used for new agents at Quantico.
And interesting sideline is that Michael Gross -who played Mattix (I think)has stated publically that he is a member of HCI.
Scouts Out,
Mark P
VictorLouis
New member
Another example of how BGs determine the time, and place of the attack, not the "cops". Speaking of which, the Bureau's SAs are not. They ARE consumate investigators, but felony car stops are not a daily, weekly, or even monthly event for them. The avg. beat cop deals with this dozens, maybe hundreds of times to every one by the FBI.
There were two FBI SWAT guys, Grogan and Dove, who certainly would've been better prepared for dealing with these two. But, echelon policies being what they were, the best group of proper personnel and equipment were not brought to bear hear. Thankfully, SA Mireles had just as much (more?) will to prevail than the two BGs did. My condolences to the families, and shame on the Bureau politics which certainly contributed to this horrendous event.
There were two FBI SWAT guys, Grogan and Dove, who certainly would've been better prepared for dealing with these two. But, echelon policies being what they were, the best group of proper personnel and equipment were not brought to bear hear. Thankfully, SA Mireles had just as much (more?) will to prevail than the two BGs did. My condolences to the families, and shame on the Bureau politics which certainly contributed to this horrendous event.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by markp:
And interesting sideline is that Michael Gross -who played Mattix (I think)has stated publically that he is a member of HCI.
[/quote]
Actually I heard Michael Gross is a member of both the NRA and HCI. He explained it as he liked guns but felt there needed to be some controls.
And interesting sideline is that Michael Gross -who played Mattix (I think)has stated publically that he is a member of HCI.
[/quote]
Actually I heard Michael Gross is a member of both the NRA and HCI. He explained it as he liked guns but felt there needed to be some controls.
FYI, you can view the FBI documents regarding this incident at:
http://foia.fbi.gov/shooting.htm
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http://foia.fbi.gov/shooting.htm
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What would have been the Feeb's reaction to that cluster ****, if it had been Miami PD or Dade County involved.
Look, the FBI knew they were going after some heavy hitters, so why did they not have their vests on? They were hunting for Platt and Mattox who they knew were well armed, so why did they have their own heavy arms in the trunks of their cars? If I were part of a team actively looking for two well armed, dangerous killers and bank robbers, you had better bet I'll have my vest on and a MAG-58 ready to roll. Well, at least a MP-5.
I don't want anyone to think this is a slam on the dead and wounded, they were doing the job they were sent ous to do, but their tactics sucked and got good people killed.
Their best shot lost his glasses when he rammed their car, he got shot stating "Where are they, I can't see."
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
Look, the FBI knew they were going after some heavy hitters, so why did they not have their vests on? They were hunting for Platt and Mattox who they knew were well armed, so why did they have their own heavy arms in the trunks of their cars? If I were part of a team actively looking for two well armed, dangerous killers and bank robbers, you had better bet I'll have my vest on and a MAG-58 ready to roll. Well, at least a MP-5.
I don't want anyone to think this is a slam on the dead and wounded, they were doing the job they were sent ous to do, but their tactics sucked and got good people killed.
Their best shot lost his glasses when he rammed their car, he got shot stating "Where are they, I can't see."
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"