savage precision carbine accuracy problems

Jimro, two things here just don't belong in the same sentence. That would be "Savage Precision Carbine" and "3 inch groups". If I had the rifle, I'd load or buy the best available ammo and shoot groups. If it shot 3 inch groups, I'd get rid of the rifle. That said, taking it to a gunsmith is a good idea, as is shipping it to savage.

A factory rifle, these days, should shoot to an inch or so. With tweaks, we'd expect to be able to get to 3/4 inch or less.

A constant sentiment on the forums is that, even though Savage rifles aren't pretty, they shoot great right out of the box. Should we question that?

Sell the Savage. Buy a Tikka.
 
603country,

I disagree, even an M24 sniper rifle is in spec if it shoots a 1 moa group with 5 shots of M118LR.

What you are saying is that a budget friendly factory rifle is out of spec when it meets the same specification as a hand built sniper rifle from the custom shop at Remington. If think that 0.75 MOA is the definition of "tight shooter" I'm going to ask why a 1.00 group is a bad thing? The diameter of the bullet is .3 MOA itself.

It is my experience that those tiny little groups you see in gun write ups are generally the best, and not the average, of a rifles performance.

Look at the performance of a Remington here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-175-the-dragunov-fpk-sniper-rifle/ Yes it is with ball ammo, and the point is that even very accurate firearms aren't going to be "very accurate" with all ammunition. Same story here with an AI sniper rifle: http://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-31-7-62-x-51-military-ball-accuracy/

Now I've not found a Savage rifle that didn't shoot well with some load workup, some more extensive than others.

Jimro
 
98 220 swift,

I've been keeping up with this post and want to add:

It appears to me from what I'm reading that you are capable of shooting better than this rifle, and that you've checked and rechecked action screws, scope mounts and rings. If I'm correct you may very well be correct in that there is a problem with the action to stock fit. In this case, a very cheap and easy fix is to skim bed the stock and see if it helps. There are numerous videos on YouTube on how to do it, and being you are not dealing with a high powered magnum you can use JB Weld as the bedding epoxy. I've done it to two of my rifles (not my PC though!) and it helped both tighten up their groupings. If that turns out not to be the problem then you can take the gun to a smith and see what he can find. Be sure and post your results.
 
Jimro, I don't disagree with what you said about the MOA groups. But, can the rifle really shoot MOA groups? That's not the way I'm reading all of this. If it would shoot 1 inch groups, then that's plenty good enough. And I would think that with a bit more tweaking it should get into the 3/4 inch range. That'll do for me. My 270, with handloads is a 3/4 inch shooter. My 260 is much better, as is my 220. My 223, even after a new barrel and action work, is not making me happy.

Bottom line, if he can shoot 1 inch groups, he can hunt to any reasonable distance. It's just that thing about it having shot 3 inch groups. I've never had a rifle that bad. Never. If I owned the rifle, I'd probably be seriously thinking about having Savage fix it or I'd sell it.

I'd like to sell and replace my 223, but I just have too much money in it.
 
According to the OP,

I did try the federal match load it shot right under 1"
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Yes, the rifle can shoot MOA with Fed match ammo.

To me, that means the rifle is probably ok, it may never be a 0.5 MOA shooter, and it may take some load workup, but if Fed GMM can shoot MOA then that can be duplicated.

Seriously I have seen Federal hunting ammo group 8 inches out of my Savage 10 Tactical (an older heavy barrel model) and then go right back to 0.75 MOA groups with my handloads. Sometimes a rifle will just hate a particular bullet weight, and mine was great with 168 match bullets and absolute crap with 180gr soft points.

Jimro
 
What you are saying is that a budget friendly factory rifle is out of spec when it meets the same specification as a hand built sniper rifle from the custom shop at Remington. If think that 0.75 MOA is the definition of "tight shooter" I'm going to ask why a 1.00 group is a bad thing? The diameter of the bullet is .3 MOA itself.
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This.

Can anyone really imagine the OP calling CS at Savage and saying "My new rifle is only shooting 1" at 100 yards..."

Really?

Continue with load workup. Some rifles shoot darn near everything well- others, are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

FGMM has a proven history of being a "universal" load, that generates barrel harmonics mol consistent with Optimal Charge Weight (if you buy into the OCW theory, which I do) which is why many manufacturers utilize it for their testing regimen. However, it isn't the be-all, end-all.

168 gr sierra match kings 168 hornaday match and 178 gr amax.
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I'll suggest again- try the heavier SMK's- 175's and 180's. Two of our .308's shoot the lighter 168's like a shotgun, and the 175's like a laser. You might not expect it- but it happens.

You don't seem to have a systematic approach to the load development, so I'm you might want to try what I (and many others) use:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

At the end of the day, it may not make a difference. It's a factory rifle, with a factory barrel. I think, that because there have been such amazing strides in out-of-the-box accuracy that we've become spoiled- and expect the accuracy from a custom in a box rifle. Sometimes you get lucky- but that's no reason to complain when you don't.

If further load workup is unsuccessful at improving accuracy, and you want a better shot at 1/2-3/4 minute- screw a Bartlein on it.
That's why there are aftermarket barrel manufacturers.
 
I would try 175 and 180 SMK's with around 43.5 Varget. Shoot well out of all three of our .308's. Not the most velocity- it's an accuracy load
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This is my pet load for my Model 10 fcp-sr. If I lay off the coffee in the mornings it will consistently put 5 rounds inside a dime sized hole.
 
I loaded up 95 rounds of various different loads to try. Mostly 168 gr sierra but also used most of the .308 bullets I have for other rifles. Heck I even loaded 5 160gr ftx bullets meant for a .308 marlin express and even some 200gr sierra game king and also some 165 gr ballistic tips.

I also took the rifle out of the stock. With the bolts out the action is fairly loose side to side. No fore and aft movement. When tightened up there is no movement. There are marks in the sides of the receiver from the aluminum block touching it. I will try to do the skim bedding on it as I think this may be the problem. If I don't shoot the rifle this weekend I will try this. I have bedded a few mausers and also my savage 110 with regular stock. I have not done a accustock so this will be a learning experience.

I also plan on taking my scope on my ar along. It has quick detach scope mounts that have worked well for over 10 years. I will give it a try as well just to make sure the scope is not the problem. I don't think it is but want to eliminate everything.


This rifle does not shoot bad. It would be fine for a hunting rifle. But when it is called a "precision" carbine I would expect better than what it does. I don't expect benchrest groups but I would think 1/2 moa should be acceptable.

If I cant get it to shot any better it will probably get traded off for something else. Probably a 223. the .308 cal bullets are getting fairly $$$ $40 for a box of sierra mks is going to limit my shooting with this a bit.
 
Quote:
I would try 175 and 180 SMK's with around 43.5 Varget. Shoot well out of all three of our .308's. Not the most velocity- it's an accuracy load
This is my pet load for my Model 10 fcp-sr. If I lay off the coffee in the mornings it will consistently put 5 rounds inside a dime sized hole.
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I found one spectacular exception to the "go heavy and fast" loads in my Savage 308--the moly-coated 150 gr ballistic silvertip is exceedingly accurate propelled by RL 15. : )
 
I hate to say it, but maybe the OP just got a bad rifle. If it ever shot 3 inch groups, which I think he said it did, that's a very bad sign.
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Pretty much my take. The OP dude got a Savage lemon with shotgun accuracy.

* * * It would be fine for a hunting rifle. But when it is called a "precision" carbine I would expect better than what it does. I don't expect benchrest groups but I would think 1/2 moa should be acceptable.
If I can't get it to shot any better it will probably get traded off for something else. Probably a 223. the .308 cal bullets are getting fairly $$$ $40 for a box of sierra mks is going to limit my shooting with this a bit.
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Exactly my point ...

Best to stop fiddling around wasting factory ammo or any more time hunched over the reloading bench. Cut the loss now and sell it, and then get a Remy or a Ruger Precision.
 
98 220 swift said:
I also took the rifle out of the stock. With the bolts out the action is fairly loose side to side. No fore and aft movement. When tightened up there is no movement. There are marks in the sides of the receiver from the aluminum block touching it. I will try to do the skim bedding on it as I think this may be the problem. If I don't shoot the rifle this weekend I will try this. I have bedded a few mausers and also my savage 110 with regular stock. I have not done a accustock so this will be a learning experience.
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I've never seen bedding take a 3+ minute rifle and turn it into a less than 1 minute rifle. With the groups you say you're getting and the shooter isn't the issue it's either a bad barrel or the problems in your optics and/or the mounts. There is nothing in what you described of the bedding block and action to indicate the issue is there.
 
I've never seen bedding take a 3+ minute rifle and turn it into a less than 1 minute rifle
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rifle only shot 3 " groups when clean or with crappy factory ammo. shoots around 1" with most handloads. trying to get better groups. Figure it should shot better than that.
 
Cut the loss now and sell it, and then get a Remy or a Ruger Precision.
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Every Savage I've owned has shot better "out of the box" than every 700 I've owned.

Don't own a RPR, but I suspect that if they shot half-minute, there wouldn't be this flurry of manufacturers jumping on the bandwagon to spit out aftermarket barrels.

Your expectations are unrealistic if you demand a factory rifle to shoot better than half-minute (and, the OP hasn't yet "proven" that from the very limited load workup, IMO).
 
Dude, seriously? :rolleyes:

His so-called Savage "precision" carbine is yielding multi-MOA junk groups. Time to get rid of it.

No one wants a bolt gun, especially one advertised as a precision stick, that yields unpredictable shotgun-pattern groups.

Frankly, nobody's got that much time or money in their life to continually d*ck with a lemon, hoping to get it to the level of accuracy it should have had when it left the factory. :rolleyes:
 
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"Dude"...

rifle only shot 3 " groups when clean or with crappy factory ammo. shoots around 1" with most handloads. trying to get better groups. Figure it should shot better than that.
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Doesn't equate to:

His so-called Savage "precision" carbine is yielding multi-MOA junk groups. Time to get rid of it.
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Perhaps you should re-read this thread.

BTW, terms like "Precision", and "Tactical" are meaningless marketing words thrown around carelessly these days. Besides, 1" with factory ammo IS the benchmark "standard" for factory rifles.

So, how 'bout you name another factory rifle- in this price range- that has a GUARANTEE to shoot 3/4 minute, out of the box?
 
98 220 swift said:
rifle only shot 3 " groups when clean or with crappy factory ammo. shoots around 1" with most handloads. trying to get better groups. Figure it should shot better than that.
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I only saw once where you said it shot better than 1" and that was with Fed GM ammunition. The other place you talked about groups you mentioned three inches, but settled down after a couple of groups. If you give as much information as possible up front we don't have to dig so hard to help with answers.

You have totally unrealistic expectations of a factory rifle, and the way you set it up. Since Savage named it a precision rifle your belief is it should shoot better than 1 MOA, but it's a rifle with no accuracy guarantee of any kind let alone near .5 MOA. However, you choose to shoot it with mediocre optics and brass but expect near benchrest precision and complain when it fails to shoot the groups you believe it should. Yet you keep frustrating yourself by doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
 
You have totally unrealistic expectations of a factory rifle, and the way you set it up. Since Savage named it a precision rifle your belief is it should shoot better than 1 MOA, but it's a rifle with no accuracy guarantee of any kind let alone near .5 MOA. However, you choose to shoot it with mediocre optics and brass but expect near benchrest precision and complain when it fails to shoot the groups you believe it should. Yet you keep frustrating yourself by doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results
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When I can use worst optics and the same inferior brass and shoot better groups with other rifles yes I believe this rifle should shoot better than this. Maybe I haven't found the correct load but I had always heard .308 was a easy round to load for.
Heck my .260 mauser I just got done with enough to shoot will out shot this savage with most loads I have tried in it. It is the first mauser I have fully built off of a military action. It has a cheap adams and bennett heavy barrel on it. It's just sitting in a old stock I had sitting around. It's not even bedded. And I am using a ancient 3x9 power weaver scope that is fuzzy. Oh and it is also using inferior brass and win primers as well. Can't wait to see what it does when I get a good stock and bed it properly.


Maybe I am wrong but I still would think the precision carbine should shoot better than it does.
 
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