savage precision carbine accuracy problems

I don't like Rem brass for 308 accuracy loads, but if you sort well it should be fine.
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I have been using win brass but I will try the rem to see if it changes anything. The rem is all once fired brass from some cheap factory ammo. For this rifle I have always sorted the brass to weigh within a grain of each other for a 5 shot group and weigh the bullets so they are within a .1gr weight of each other. trying everything I can to get it to shot better.
 
I did notice the last time I shot it the barrel was clean and it shot terrible like 3" groups for the first 2 groupings then settled down.
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This is a sign of a bad barrel. Had a Win like it in 243.
 
98 220 swift said:
yes it does have a parallax adj 6.5x20 smimmons scope. I have never had a problem with it on other rifles.
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Let me guess a 6.5-20X50 Whitetail Classic scope? I had one of those on a .204 Ruger and I was throwing large groups. Swapped it out for a 2-7X32 Vortex Viper and my groups immediately shrank to under 1" for 5 shots.

I missed that part earlier, and I wish I had seen it before I posted. I'd almost bet your scope has went south, and you need to swap it out for different optics. I've sworn off Simmons since they dropped the Atec line and I had that experience with the 6.5-20X50 Whitetail Classic scope.
 
I was wondering about the the stock. I have seen other people say shaping out the stock helps. I wonder about glass bedding it if that would help. It helped my older savage 110 out with its flimsy factory stock.
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The selling point of the AccuStock is that it has an aluminum skeleton which makes the forearm stiffer. There are certainly better stocks on the market but I would not say it's a huge piece of crap, I've seen and owned much worse.

I also don't see what's so great about the accutrigger. It's not terrible but I adj the factory trigger on my older 110 and it's better than the accutrigger.
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Are you sure we're talking about the Savage Precision Carbine? It should have come with a target version of the AccuTrigger, mine is unbelievable crisp with zero travel. My cousin has a Jewel on his tactical rifle and it even impressed him straight out of the box.
 
Are you carefully timing between your shots in the grouping? My old $275 axis in 308 tended to string erratically when I wasn't careful about consistent barrel temp from one shot to the next--usually still shot around 1.5 to 2 MOA with just about anything. But when I really tried to control things it could consistently shoot sub MOA with the right handload.

 
Let me guess a 6.5-20X50 Whitetail Classic scope?
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Yes but I have tried a different scope same results.

Are you sure we're talking about the Savage Precision Carbine
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Yes. The trigger is adj all the way down and it is not that great. Not terrible and better than 90% of factory triggers but not that great. Heck every once and a great while when you close the bolt the striker falls. I have to open and close the bolt to recock it.


Are you carefully timing between your shots in the grouping
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I am single loading the rifle so it does not get very hot. Actually the rifle seems to like to be warm. I have a howa 30-06 that shoots terribly if you get it hot. If you shoot it once and let it cool for 5 min and repeat 5 times it will put the bullet in one ragged hole at 100 yards. works fine for a hunting rifle.
I double checked the barrel channel last night even when putting a lot of pressure on the barrel to make the stock flex I can still slide a piece of paper under around the barrel all the way to the receiver.
 
98 220 swift said:
Yes but I have tried a different scope same results.
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Have you tried your Simmons on a different rifle since putting it on the Savage? I'd put it on a rifle that you have a good load worked up for and see how it shoots. Sorry, I just don't trust Simmons optics and have chased my tail before with bad optics.
 
Savage .308

Personally believe that 1 MOA from what is essentially a sporter weight rifle is not all that bad. ( the PC is a fluted short barrel number, yeah?) But, no issue with trying to improve performance.

Noticed that one post advised that ammo was "to spec" which leads me to believe that we are referring to Cartridge Over All Length. I'm not sure I have any rifles that I consider consistently sub MOA, that I do not have the slugs seated out longer than SAAMI spec. Maybe I missed it, but has the OP worked with bullet seating depth?

Also, my best shooting rifles (sub MOA) have been fed brass that has been worked over pretty heavily. Cases sorted and trimmed, primer pockets uniformed and flash holes deburred, then cases weighed out to a certain batch range. I don't neck size, do not have the equipment.

Finally, and I do not want to sound like a snob, but we are talking about milking the best performance from a rig, right? I cannot be a fan of the equipment/accessories being discussed when in search of consistent MOA. Lee dies, Rem brass, and a Simmons scope are sort of at the bottom of the food chain. Minimally, for best accuracy, I'd be looking at somebody's "match" dies, Lapua brass, and a better scope. Match performance from bargain gear does not happen consistently.
 
Sometimes rifles don't shoot their best from a bipod, especially if the barrel isn't free-floated. Is it completely free-floated, with at least 1/16" of float at all points?

Next, unless there's at least a skim-coat of bedding material between the receiver and an aluminum bedding block, it probably won't shoot as well as you'd like. Been there with a Sendero stock.

Seating depth is the greatest variable to good accuracy. Have you experimented with it to determine the best seating depth for that particular chamber/leade?

JP
 
Personally believe that 1 MOA from what is essentially a sporter weight rifle is not all that bad. ( the PC is a fluted short barrel number, yeah?)
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It is a 20" barrel and not fluted. I would call it a medium weight barrel.

Noticed that one post advised that ammo was "to spec" which leads me to believe that we are referring to Cartridge Over All Length. I'm not sure I have any rifles that I consider consistently sub MOA, that I do not have the slugs seated out longer than SAAMI spec. Maybe I missed it, but has the OP worked with bullet seating depth?

Also, my best shooting rifles (sub MOA) have been fed brass that has been worked over pretty heavily. Cases sorted and trimmed, primer pockets uniformed and flash holes deburred, then cases weighed out to a certain batch range. I don't neck size, do not have the equipment.
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I am loading the bullets .05 off the lands. Which is where I normally start if the mag lets me. And adj from there if I find a good load. So far have not found any good loads.

Finally, and I do not want to sound like a snob, but we are talking about milking the best performance from a rig, right? I cannot be a fan of the equipment/accessories being discussed when in search of consistent MOA. Lee dies, Rem brass, and a Simmons scope are sort of at the bottom of the food chain. Minimally, for best accuracy, I'd be looking at somebody's "match" dies, Lapua brass, and a better scope. Match performance from bargain gear does not happen consistently.
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While I admit there may be more accuracy using better component I have gotten very good accuracy sub 1/2 moa using the lee collet dies win brass and simmons scopes on a few other rifles I have. I actually think the lee collet die is a pretty good piece of equipment. doesn't work the brass much and allows you to set neck tension.
 
Sometimes rifles don't shoot their best from a bipod, especially if the barrel isn't free-floated. Is it completely free-floated, with at least 1/16" of float at all points?

Next, unless there's at least a skim-coat of bedding material between the receiver and an aluminum bedding block, it probably won't shoot as well as you'd like. Been there with a Sendero stock
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rifle is free floated quite a lot from the factory all the way back to receiver. I am still wondering about the bedding. Kinda thinking that may be the problem.
 
Have you tried your Simmons on a different rifle since putting it on the Savage? I'd put it on a rifle that you have a good load worked up for and see how it shoots. Sorry, I just don't trust Simmons optics and have chased my tail before with bad optics
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Had the same scope on a rather inaccurate mauser sporter in 25-06. Long story but the mauser has been a pain since I bought it. any way the savage had a Nikon 3x9 on it when I got it. Groups with it was no better. I was hoping that changing to a 20 power would help but it did not. Scope has shown no wonder of zero in the over 200rds that has been shot through it after the scope change. I have 3 of these scopes and found them to work quite well. Only problem is changing zero when changing magnification. Not a big deal on target scope for me.
 
rifle is free floated quite a lot from the factory all the way back to receiver. I am still wondering about the bedding. Kinda thinking that may be the problem.
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I've had a bit of experience "accurizing the best I can" Savage tupperware stocks. Properly torquing the receiver screws to the stock is pretty critical, and it's pretty easy to over do it when trying to reduce movement or get proper alignment and that can create problems too. I'm sure you've done this--but make sure the barrel lug is also properly aligned too. Although the accustock is better than the other budget tupperware stocks as found on the Axis series--it can still flex a bit if you put a heavy check weld on it and that could be throwing things a bit as well.

I like Savages for their barrels and bolts--the rest of the rifle is general pretty ho-hum (in their non-premium models) IMO.

I am single loading the rifle so it does not get very hot. Actually the rifle seems to like to be warm. I have a howa 30-06 that shoots terribly if you get it hot. If you shoot it once and let it cool for 5 min and repeat 5 times it will put the bullet in one ragged hole at 100 yards. works fine for a hunting rifle.
I double checked the barrel channel last night even when putting a lot of pressure on the barrel to make the stock flex I can still slide a piece of paper under around the barrel all the way to the receiver.
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As Carlos Hathcock would say--it's only the first cold-bore shot that counts.:)
 
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Well, if you are loading 0.05" off the lands, then I would say anneal the neck of your Winchester brass, get some different primers, load up those 168 SMKs, and 41.5gr of IMR4064 powder to launch them.

Torque your action screws, scope base screws, and ring screws to spec, and then go shoot.

If that load doesn't shoot tight, then start messing with the rifle. It's a slower load, but I've yet to see a 308 that didn't shoot it well.

Jimro
 
Dug this test up online:

http://www.snipercentral.com/savage-10-precision-carbine/

Their results suggest it should be shooting a bit better than right at one minute.

Q: If I missed it somewhere- do you have other rifles that you can consistently shoot significantly better than this? If so, we can suspect the rifle, or load. If not, then we have to introduce the possibility of some shooter error, as not everyone can bang out half inch groups at 100. There seems to be an "assumption" that everyone can shoot as good as the rifle they're driving and it just ain't so.

I would try 175 and 180 SMK's with around 43.5 Varget. Shoot well out of all three of our .308's. Not the most velocity- it's an accuracy load.

Not a fan of the Accutrigger... I use Rifle Basix, but Timney recently introduced one that should live up to its name. I like my benchrest triggers at about 1 to 1-1/2 pounds- no more.
 
Q: If I missed it somewhere- do you have other rifles that you can consistently shoot significantly better than this?
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Yes I have a few other rifles that have no problem shooting tight around 1/2 " groups at 100 yards. Heck the same day I shot this rifle I took my old grandpas savage 340 hornet and shot a group that a nickel could cover at 100 yards. With a ancient 4 power scope and the crappy trigger that is on that rifle. On a good overcast day I can shoot groups similar to what this savage can do with my 1903 springfield and my k31. both with open sights. It may be the rifle doesn't fit me but I doubt it.
 
OK

Sounds to me like you have an understanding of what your're doing. If you're hovering around 1 MOA, I'd say you are onto a "good load" already.

If the mag box let's you, I'd run that bullet out to .03 off the lands and see what happens. I am curious, just how far out are the lands on this rifle, ie, what is your COAL at .05 off? I'd also work the brass up as I described in previous post.

No problems with Win brass, and use it along side Lapua, that stuff is expensive.
You like the Lee dies, I like others, that' s the way it goes.

Good luck with your project.
 
I hate to say it, but maybe the OP just got a bad rifle. If it ever shot 3 inch groups, which I think he said it did, that's a very bad sign. I hope I'm wrong.
 
603 Country,

Any rifle can shoot 3 moa groups when loaded with 3 moa ammunition...

Still, an honest 1 MOA group for 5 shots is pretty darn good for a factory rifle in my opinion. Everyone would like to have tighter, but if you can't do it with a minute of precision, shooting tighter ain't likely going to fix your problem.

Jimro
 
603Country said:
I hate to say it, but maybe the OP just got a bad rifle. If it ever shot 3 inch groups, which I think he said it did, that's a very bad sign. I hope I'm wrong.
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He might have, but it'll only cost him about another $400 to fix it. I'd take it to a gunsmith with a bore scope and check out the barrel. Who knows what'll be found out, maybe call Savage and see if they'll do anything for you.
 
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