savage precision carbine accuracy problems

9

98 220 swift

New member
I have a precision carbine in .308. Rifle has the accustock and accutrigger. Really figured this rifle would shoot better than 1"groups at 100 yards. I have tried several different powders and bullet combination some shoot better than others but still not very good. I was wondering if the bedding is not very good with the accustock. I know it is supposed to be good? Is there a way to install it wrong. Any help would be appreciated. I like the rifle but its accuracy is not as good as I would have hoped.
 
Odds are it's you and not the rifle, but one minute of angle is within tolerance for a milspec M24 sniper rifle. The 308 has a good reputation for accuracy, but that was earned by being better than the 30-06 (and now the 308 usually gets beat by the 223 in Service Rifle competitions).

One, I recommend load workup at 200 yards if possible.

Two, are you using a scope with parallax adjustment? If the answer is no, definitely do a load workup at 200 if you can. The longer distance will allow fixed parallax scopes more precise aiming.

Three, are you using a benchrest? If you aren't a sub-MOA shooter you can't expect the rifle to be. Differences in hold pressure against the shoulder can cause a lot of muzzle velocity variation, which can open up groups.

If you've already controlled for those variables, drive on. But for the sake of being thorough, what bullets, powder, primers, and brass have you tried?

Jimro
 
Have you tried some factory match grade ammo? If you want benchrest accuracy with reloads, full benchrest prep of the brass is needed. Also bushing dies and Berger bullets to start. Match the bullet to the barrel twist rate. Minimum of 18 power scope, or higher. Good luck. Groups reported online are always smaller then in real life. :D
 
Odds are it's you and not the rifle, but one minute of angle is within tolerance for a milspec M24 sniper rifle.
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Possible but I also shot my grandfathers old savage 22 hornet the same day. First five shots was covered by a nickel at 100 yards. This was with a ancient fuzzy 4 power scope. And just with some reloads I threw together. I was floored at that grouping.
One, I recommend load workup at 200 yards if possible.
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I may have to try that.

[QUOTETwo, are you using a scope with parallax adjustment? If the answer is no, definitely do a load workup at 200 if you can. The longer distance will allow fixed parallax scopes more precise aiming.][/QUOTE]

yes it does have a parallax adj 6.5x20 smimmons scope. I have never had a problem with it on other rifles.

Three, are you using a benchrest? If you aren't a sub-MOA shooter you can't expect the rifle to be. Differences in hold pressure against the shoulder can cause a lot of muzzle velocity variation, which can open up groups
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Yes off of a bench rest with a bipod and rear bag and also with bags front and rear.
But for the sake of being thorough, what bullets, powder, primers, and brass have you tried?
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168 gr sierra match kings 168 hornaday match and 178 gr amax.
4064 4895 varget cfe 223 and h335
wlr primer
win brass
 
Have you tried some factory match grade ammo? If you want benchrest accuracy with reloads, full benchrest prep of the brass is needed. Also bushing dies and Berger bullets to start
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I did try the federal match load it shot right under 1" I am neck sizing the brass with a lee collet die I have good luck with these on other calibers. I may have to give the bergers a try. barrel twist is 1-10" so 168 should work fine I would believe?
 
There is a big difference in recoil with the Hornet vs. .308, so I tend to agree it's more than likely the guy pulling the trigger. Have you had anyone else shoot the rifle? We don't know how you work up your loads, have you run any seating depth or pressure tests? I tend to agree buy a box of Federal Gold Medal match ammunition and see what your rifle can do.
 
There is a big difference in recoil with the Hornet vs. .308, so I tend to agree it's more than likely the guy pulling the trigger. Have you had anyone else shoot the rifle?
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Doubt its the recoil I can get my Marlin Guide gun to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with some fairly stout 45-70 loads. Makes the .308 seem like a -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- cat. It could be me but I don't have much problems with other rifles. A few weeks ago shot a .5" group at 100 yards with my 25-06 savage 110. Just seems like there is something I am missing with this rifle.
 
I have a Savage PC in 308 and really like it, I topped it with a Vortex Viper 6-24 and have had great results with it. I've tried SMK 168's and 175's, and Hornady Match 178's, powders were IMR4064 and Varget, and I use Lapua brass and CCI BR primers. I hate to tell you but all the loads I've tested have shot MOA or better in my rifle. I settled on the using the Hornady and a max load of Varget. It is not the best shooting out of the three bullets tested but it'll still shoot .75 MOA and the B.C. allows for me to shoot over 1000 yards without any issues.
 
22 Hornet has a lot less recoil than a 308 Win, a much slower twist rate. Qualities that make it relatively easy to load for if you aren't using too hot of primers.

Ok, for the 308, WLR primers are not exactly "match grade." Swap in some CCI BR-2s or FGMM or Wolf LR and see if that doesn't cut the group sizes a bit.

Also, stick with the Sierra 168 SMK (tangent ogive, more jump tolerant than the secant ogive Hornadys). Win brass is fine, 42.5gr of 4064 should give you about as good a group as you are going to get.

But I think if everything else is as you say it is, the primers are your best bet to tighten groups. Also, use virgin brass and see if that tightens your groups (it always has for me using Winchester brass).

Jimro
 
You might try another scope. A couple of years ago I bought a new 223 and started load work ups. It shot Ok, but it never shot great, and the longer I shot it the worse it seemed to get. Long story short, it was the new scope (Nikon Monarch). Swapped it out for an old Bushnell I had, and started shooting much better groups. I burned a bunch of powder and wasted hundreds of bullets and primers because of a scope. Since the rifle was new, I had no history of how well it should shoot, which made my troubleshooting mostly guesswork.

And, like someone mentioned, brass can have a big impact. Recently my 220 Swift started shooting large ugly groups, which was quite a shock. I noticed that I had a high percentage of split necks. Tossed the whole bunch of brass, loaded up some new Norma and I'm back to tiny groups.
 
You might try another scope.
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Rifle had a 3-9 power Nikon on it when I got it. I was hoping that the swap to a higher power scope would help. It did not.

And, like someone mentioned, brass can have a big impact
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Brass was virgin when I started load work for this rifle. This will be the 5 reload on it. After first firing neck sizing improved groups slightly. I do have some Remington brass I may try it.
 
Most new rifles shoot better after a few rounds have been through the barrel. Savage rifles tend to have rougher than average barrels from the factory. It might just need a little more time to smooth out.
 
Try the new brass, but run it through the Collet Die first to true up the necks.

And maybe you've already done it, but clean the carbon out with Butch's or Shooter's Choice. That'll leave most of the copper in place, which I expect you want. Though possibly there might be too much copper now. Maybe.

And, have you checked to be sure the scope mounts are all tight? I had one loosen up recently when I'd have bet you $20 that they were tight.

One last thing. If you are shooting loads near max, the brass you've been using may need to be FL sized to bump the shoulder back a bit, which the Collet Die won't do.

Good luck with it. I really understand your frustration. Like they say, "I have the T Shirt".
 
I have a PC. 46.0gr of Varget under a 165gr NBT set at spec. Shot well under 1" for me in the Accustock. Put it in a B&C 1012 Medalist, got rid of the Accutrigger and it shoots under .5" consistently.

The Accustock is a hunk of crap IMO.
 
And maybe you've already done it, but clean the carbon out with Butch's or Shooter's Choice. That'll leave most of the copper in place, which I expect you want. Though possibly there might be too much copper now. Maybe.

And, have you checked to be sure the scope mounts are all tight? I had one loosen up recently when I'd have bet you $20 that they were tight.

One last thing. If you are shooting loads near max, the brass you've been using may need to be FL sized to bump the shoulder back a bit, which the Collet Die won't do.

Good luck with it. I really understand your frustration. Like they say, "I have the T Shirt".
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I did notice the last time I shot it the barrel was clean and it shot terrible like 3" groups for the first 2 groupings then settled down. I am going to recheck the scope mounts even though I believe them to be tight.
 
[QUOTE
I have a PC. 46.0gr of Varget under a 165gr NBT set at spec. Shot well under 1" for me in the Accustock. Put it in a B&C 1012 Medalist, got rid of the Accutrigger and it shoots under .5" consistently.-CENSORED-

The Accustock is a hunk of crap IMO.

/QUOTE]


I was wondering about the the stock. I have seen other people say shaping out the stock helps. I wonder about glass bedding it if that would help. It helped my older savage 110 out with its flimsy factory stock.
I also don't see what's so great about the accutrigger. It's not terrible but I adj the factory trigger on my older 110 and it's better than the accutrigger.
 
Y'know...the guy shoots other combinations quite well - from .22 Hornet on up.

Maybe its the rifle.
Pete
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Maybe it is the rifle, but with consistent 1 MOA groups with three bullets there is definitely potential there.

One guy I know had to drop bullet weight down to 150/155 gr to get his Savage Hog Hunter to group tight. Dangdest thing, going to hunting bullets instead of match bullets fixed his accuracy problem.

I still think the biggest source of dispersion is the WLR primers, they are not known for consistency (which is why you don't find many match shooters using them for match loads). If virgin brass and 4 reload brass are still producing 1 MOA groups odds are it isn't the brass (at least not the main cause).

I don't like Rem brass for 308 accuracy loads, but if you sort well it should be fine.

Jimro
 
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