Savage Model 111 30-06 good for long range?

N

ninosdemente

New member
First off, I am not trying to be the next "sniper" by no means or trying to be a wannabe. Just doing target only. I am trying to work my way up. I'm at 200 at the moment. But still need work before I can move up.

I just have this rifle and have been enjoying shooting it and decided to give it a try. I understand there are a lot of techniques and factors that play in order to be able to shoot far. This I am working on and reading what I can.

I initially bought it for hunting which it will be used for that. It currently has a Nikon 3-9x40 BDC, which I was told was an entry level scope. Now I have been reading almost entirely online and I did read that a scope is one of the main tools needed to someday shoot far. By far I mean up to 500 yds. Hopefully if I ever get descent enough I would like to go further than 500 yds. Now I am saving money, as I have also read that they are not cheap. I know that many people have their different choices of scopes and would like to know which scope is good/adequate for what I am trying to accomplish. Also is this rifle/caliber good for long distances?

Now as I have learned the hard way, the bullets are not cheap either. Is there an alternate rifle/caliber I can get that is good/acceptable for long range shooting? I have been coming across on the 6.5 creedmoor a lot. Is this "ideal" or just a "preferred" caliber for long range shooting or should I just stay with what I have and "upgrade" the savage?

I have been shooting with Winchester Super X Power Point and Herter's 150gr. I also have Nosler BT 150gr, Nosler BT 165gr and Hornady 150gr bullets which I bought for reloading. But have not gotten to it yet. I am trying to find an alternative way to clean them instead of using a tumbler as I don't have one yet. Any help here also would greatly be appreciated.

Thank you in advanced for your help.
 
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Your rifle and scope should be sufficient to develop some skill at long distances, probably at least 300 yards. If you become proficient enough at 300+ yards and are interested in going significantly further, you can evaluate other equipment options at that time.

You can get fired cases reasonably clean by soaking them in water and a little Dawn dishwashing detergent in a bucket. Leave them in at least a few hours, agitating them several times. Rinse well with water and dry the outside with a paper towel. Lay the cases on their sides on a cloth overnight, preferably near a dehumidifier, fan, or furnace vent to dry the insides. I like to de-prime the cases before washing them in that manner since water tends to get trapped in the primer pockets.
 
My favorite hunting rifle caliber is a 30-06. I started hunting with one 50 years ago and the 30-06 will have more than enough velocity to carry you beyond 1000 yards. A 165 grain bullet has enough energy to drop an elk at 500 yards. At that distance the bullet delivers over 1200 lbs of energy. So for deer it is no problem.

Your scope is fine and you do not need the magnification power of a spotting scope on a rifle scope. In all my hunting scopes I have found out that when sighting on a deer at a long distance I normally stay at 6X or 7X. For target shooting at long distance a little more power will be helpful but not much because more magnification also means magnifying atmospheric conditions.

With my BDC scope I like to zero at two hundred yards that way I get an extra 100 yds with the BDC reticles and you do not have to worry about it not being a magnum rifle because the reticles will be dead on at 600 yards too.
 
500yds is still medium range and you won't need a new scope even if it is.

Basically you just need to stop reading and start shooting. Take some lessons as well.

Just remember you're not trying to beat some magic sniper guy, your just trying to be better than you were last time.

Your rifle and scope are fine and they will probably shoot better than you even if you do graduate to a custom rifle and fancy scope.

Oh, and have fun.
 
My father was observed by witnesses on two Bambi kills with his '06 at 500 yards. 6X scope. My own longest kill shot was at 450 with my '06; Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40.

I zero for 200 yards with 150-grain handloads. That's about six inches low at 300, two feet low at 400 and four feet low at 500. (Give or take an inch or so at 400 and 500.)

Tested on my 500-yard range at home.
 
First off yes your rifle will work for long rang shooting. Cartridges are expensive, but think of it this way, how much will $500-600 buy in practice? The reason I state that is because that'll be the cost of decent rifle with scope in a different chamber. For that price you can shoot around 400-450 rounds of ammunition down range of ammunition like Federal Gold Medal Match 165 grain.

Buy that tumbler and get to reloading and for that price of a new rifle you can probably get 800 plus rounds of practice including the price of the tumbler. You can get set up with a dry or wet tumbler for about $100 just look on eBay. Find a place that sells bulk bullets, use your brass, get some powder, primers and go shooting.
 
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500 yds just takes practice and understanding your ammo's trajectory. I practice 400-500yd shots with an 20" AR A4 with a 12x scope mounted.

I use my 68grn handloads and my targets are reactive . . . . . . . . medium sized red apples. Aim small, miss small.
 
I don't care what your shooting, 500 yds is long range. Anything you have to hold over on or re-adjust the sight elevation on is in my opinion long range. Your scope is fine, I have one of them myself, maybe two. Ya, one 3-9x and one 4 1/2-14x. I do not hunt with the 4 1/2-14x at all. My 3-9x is on a Mossberg patriot in 243 and the 4 1/2-14 on a heavy 6.5x06. Cost me $800 to have a 700 BDL re-barreled to 6.5x06. Add the cost or the rifle itself and the cost goes way up. Don't know if there is a scope that cost's more than that? The 243 is a 243 is a 243. Why would a 243 costing $300 require a scope costing $600 but a 243 costing $800 require a scope costing $1600?

Your 3-9x Nikon will do all you need it to. The big question could be will you be able to do it all!
 
Best thing for you to do is join a club that shoots NRA High Power.
"...up to 500 yds..." That's long for hunting. Medium for target shooting. No hunting shots past 300 unless you can hit the 9" pie plate at that distance every time. Even then the remaining energy is minimal.
For targets, out to 600 yards, work up a load using 168 grain match bullets(175's past 600) and IMR4064. Sight in about 4" high at 100 and hold on the top of the black. You'll also have to learn to read the wind and mirage. Even a 168 will get pushed around by the slightest bit of side wind. Mirage is the water-like heat waves that you see coming off the ground in summer. Looks like you're shooting through water distortion. Also lets you read the wind once you know what to look for.
Until you start reloading, Hornady loads a 168 match bullet in ammo made for the M1 Rifle that'll do. It's not even close to .30 M2 ammo of any flavour though. Too low an MV. M2 ran at 2800 fps. Anyway, zeroed at 200, it'll drop 48.6" at 500.
If you're going to wet clean your brass(lots of cleaning solutions for that), dry 'em, on a cookie sheet, in your oven set on 'warm' for 15 minutes. Let 'em sit for another 15 minutes to cool.
"...just look on E-Bay..." And provide money to the people who want to take your rifle away from you.
 
First and foremost, there is a difference between long range and hitting what you shoot at (or groups size) at long range.

What you have is a reasonably low cost hunting setup, not a target.

I had a Savage 111. The barrel is long gone. At best it was a 3 shot barrel, not because its a bad barrel, but because its a thin (Pencil) barrel. Mine (in 30-06) has a Shilen Savage Pre Fit barrel (you screw it on, tighten up the nut and you have a HB 30-06.

I can shoot 20 rounds and it does not walk.

A thin barrel like the 111 has requires at least 3 minutes between shots to stay stable, and if you shoot in hotter area(65+) more like 5minuts.

The scope is an ok hunting scope, its not a target scope.

30-06 ammo is expensive , I don't know if there is really target 30-06. It will do the 1000 yards that people want these days. All mine are hand loads, longest range I have is 300 meters (once) and a good load was shooting a bit less than 1/2 MOA. At 300 meters that's 1.5 inches. It was a hot day for us (70) sun was right down the shooting line so ambient was more like 80 and with our sun angles 90 is more like it.



If you want to target shoot out at 500 yards, you need at minimum a 1 MOA shooter and better yet 1/2 MOA.

500 yards is long range regardless oif what the one poster said.

25x Scope is minimum. So you need a good Nightforce, Vortex or Leopold to do that. Leopold is a bit late to the long range game and its 25X or better choices are not wide. they are very expensive but also very good scopes.

6.5 Cred? Yes that is a good choice. Lots of match ammot thoug reloading if you shoot a lot saves (but also for precision shooting requires more than minila equipemtn)

Cabellas has its own Store Model Savage called the 12FV. Its short actin and one of the claibers is 6.5 Crred. On sale for $319, you wold have to order and wait.

Its a very good starter target rifle, it has some Savage features that are going away on the Savage public models , it has a heavy varmint barrel and it has the acu trigger which is a very good starting target trigger (easy adjust and down to 1.5 lbs)

You would still need mounts and a scope.

The Nikon is good to 100 yards max with any precision (I have one) but its not great and 200 yards the cross hairs are too large for target.

A lot of this depends on how accurate you want to be. Hit a 3 foot gone at 500? Yea the 111 will probably do that. After 3 shots, no.

Want to be sub 1 MOA (5 shot inch group at 100, 2 inches at 200 etc) , then not at all and you need equipment.


Long term that Savage 12FV can be easily re-barrled with an after market barrel that will shoot better (bull vs Varmint, more heft, steadier, more rounds before it needs to cool off)

You also have to be able to shoot or learn how. Not easy.
 
RC20 said:
First and foremost, there is a difference between long range and hitting what you shoot at (or groups size) at long range.

What you have is a reasonably low cost hunting setup, not a target.

I had a Savage 111. The barrel is long gone. At best it was a 3 shot barrel, not because its a bad barrel, but because its a thin (Pencil) barrel. Mine (in 30-06) has a Shilen Savage Pre Fit barrel (you screw it on, tighten up the nut and you have a HB 30-06.

I can shoot 20 rounds and it does not walk.

A thin barrel like the 111 has requires at least 3 minutes between shots to stay stable, and if you shoot in hotter area(65+) more like 5minuts.

The scope is an ok hunting scope, its not a target scope.

30-06 ammo is expensive , I don't know if there is really target 30-06. It will do the 1000 yards that people want these days. All mine are hand loads, longest range I have is 300 meters (once) and a good load was shooting a bit less than 1/2 MOA. At 300 meters that's 1.5 inches. It was a hot day for us (70) sun was right down the shooting line so ambient was more like 80 and with our sun angles 90 is more like it.



If you want to target shoot out at 500 yards, you need at minimum a 1 MOA shooter and better yet 1/2 MOA.

500 yards is long range regardless oif what the one poster said.

25x Scope is minimum. So you need a good Nightforce, Vortex or Leopold to do that. Leopold is a bit late to the long range game and its 25X or better choices are not wide. they are very expensive but also very good scopes.

6.5 Cred? Yes that is a good choice. Lots of match ammot thoug reloading if you shoot a lot saves (but also for precision shooting requires more than minila equipemtn)

Cabellas has its own Store Model Savage called the 12FV. Its short actin and one of the claibers is 6.5 Crred. On sale for $319, you wold have to order and wait.

Its a very good starter target rifle, it has some Savage features that are going away on the Savage public models , it has a heavy varmint barrel and it has the acu trigger which is a very good starting target trigger (easy adjust and down to 1.5 lbs)

You would still need mounts and a scope.

The Nikon is good to 100 yards max with any precision (I have one) but its not great and 200 yards the cross hairs are too large for target.

A lot of this depends on how accurate you want to be. Hit a 3 foot gone at 500? Yea the 111 will probably do that. After 3 shots, no.

Want to be sub 1 MOA (5 shot inch group at 100, 2 inches at 200 etc) , then not at all and you need equipment.


Long term that Savage 12FV can be easily re-barrled with an after market barrel that will shoot better (bull vs Varmint, more heft, steadier, more rounds before it needs to cool off)

You also have to be able to shoot or learn how. Not easy.
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Really good post!:)
 
Well thank you. Much appreciated.

I think that is what these should be all about, give your best information from your view, support it and the OP gets to pick what seems to work for them.

In this case as much as I love my 30-06, and hope to shoot a 1000 with it someday, its not the best cartridge for that and while we can discuss which one is, the 6.5 Creed is certainly up in the top 3 to 5 in my view and I think for the OP.

Low kick, great characteristics , accurate.

And if any single contributors information does not take, then its a contrast to what does not seem to work and helps us muddle through decisions.

Not only nothing wrong with opposing vies, its right there should be. No single solution for all by any means.


Going off track a bit:

I have gotten some dings from the Moderators on this forum, they were deserved and I had gotten out of line. Sure I got carried away but the ding was presented straight forward, nothing derogatory, simply stated what the issue was and the penalty. Fair enough.

I got kicked off Savage Shooters for trying to give honest and supported information about a bad vendor. PM was to the moderator and was taken as a challenge to Authority. Hmmm, not public, private.

This forum is handled the way it should be and I want to thank them.
 
I shoot 30-06 because I enjoy the cartridge. Simple as that really. I also shoot a Savage 111 with the accutrigger. BUT I also hand load and that is key. It is such a versatile round and can accommodate so many different uses that is the only way to get the most out of it. I regularly shoot F-Class prone/600yds with it and did use the sporter profile barrel until I wore it out and replaced it with a Shilen match barrel. The stock barrel isn't as bad as people say about walking with heat but you do have to manage it and know HOW it walks. There will be a pattern to it you will only recognize after shooting it enough.

I also started with a Nikon 3-9x and later put an Athlon Argus on it for a budget scope with a little more mag for reading mirage better. Bottom line is that I have far more expensive equipment and I use it when I feel I need it, but there is a whole lot to be said for shooting whatever you have WELL and that only comes with more trigger time and rounds down range. I like to compete with what I also use to hunt with. So many hunt every season after one or two rounds to zero and wonder how that monster buck got away. Way more challenging at matches but I only compete against myself and accept a little improvement every match as a win for me.

Best advice in this thread I think is find some matches in your area, show up with what you have, and shoot. You just can't beat the quality of the help you will get that way. Learn the fundamentals and most of all have FUN!
 
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If you want to target shoot out at 500 yards, you need at minimum a 1 MOA shooter and better yet 1/2 MOA.
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You mean to say if you want to shoot competitively. People shoot targets all the time with rifles that don't shoot 1 moa.
 
Since when has 06 ammo been expensive??
Or bullets for that matter?

Scope will let you ring steel at 500 yards. IF you do your part.

168gr. Sierra Match Kings or Berger VLD for the more serious target shooting. Hornady 168gr. SST for trigger time. Those with IMR 4350 or Alliant RL17 will do ya good.

You can pick up a tumbler for $50 new. I get walnut from Harbor Freight.

The Savage does have a thin barrel, but has pillars installed already. I bedded mine with Devcon also. And bedded 2 carbon fider arrow shafts with light weight bondo in the fore stock to stiffen that up. Also better recoil pad.
Your 111 is capable of shooting golf balls at 200 meters. Fun also...
 
Again you have all you need to get started long range shooting. Your rifle doesn't need a new barrel or scope to be effective at hitting a target at 500 yards. Tumblers are cheap, but I only clean cases when they get really tarnished other than that it's just the primer pockets.

Start small go to 200-300 yards first, when that becomes easy move out further. You don't need to pay for training, join a club or get involved with any competitions though none of those are bad suggestions. Also shooting a .22 LR out to 100+ yards is great practice for moving your .30-06 out to 500+.

Only upgrade your equipment when you skill level is better than your tools. Too many times people try to buy skill, I've been guilty of that myself. The best way to improve skill is time behind the trigger.
 
Buzzcook said:
You mean to say if you want to shoot competitively. People shoot targets all the time with rifles that don't shoot 1 moa.
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Yup, this. I have posted this before, shooting a Mauser with iron sights at standard steel IPSC silhouette target, laser ranged at 470 yards, using cheap Federal/Lake City XM80C firing prone off a sandbag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWOePGiaBcM&t

I could have done the same thing easily with my .30-06 1903A3, easier actually, it is a more accurate rifle with better sights.

It all depends on what you are wanting to do. You aren't going to win any matches with a stock Savage 111 and a hunting scope, but you can get your feet wet in the world of long range target shooting with it.

RC20 said:
30-06 ammo is expensive , I don't know if there is really target 30-06. It will do the 1000 yards that people want these days.
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If you think about it, this is a ridiculously good deal:
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/2307/shop-by-department

$1.35 each, for ammo loaded with Lapua brass and bullets, you can't buy the components for that price, not even counting the powder and primer.

Buy two boxes of that, save the brass and start handloading, or turn around and sell the empties, you can probably get 50¢ each for once fired Lapua cases.

T. O'Heir said:
For targets, out to 600 yards, work up a load using 168 grain match bullets(175's past 600) and IMR4064.
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I personally have had better luck in .30-06 sized cases with IMR4350, but 4064 will certainly work. I also wouldn't bother with 168s if you are working up a load, the 175s are pretty much the same price, and will work out to 1000 yards. Don't over-complicate things with two different loads. You won't lose anything with the 175 in accuracy at shorter range, but will gain a bit with the better ballistics of the 175 even 600 yards and below.
 
First, if you are going to lay out an alternative (and that is what this is about) then list the basics and accuracy level you are talking about.

I can mortar in a 30-30 at 500 yards, that's not target shooting and that is not accuracy.

And you don't want to go jump into competitions until you can shoot reasonably and for TARGET, I deem that to be sub 1/2 MOA. You want to get discouraged, try to compete in that arena when neither you nor your equipment is capable of it.

My submission is based on my experience of working up to and at least coming reasonably close to being an accurate shooter at over 60.

Its taken 5 years of trial and error to be a reasonably good TARGET shooter. I know what works and what does not.

If you truly are trying to be an accurate shot, not just walk rounds onto a steel plate, then yes, it does take good equipment.

The equipment should be BETTER than the shooter.

Otherwise, if you are actually able to shoot, then you outgrow your equipment.

What I listed as a very good choice for someone who is looking to be an accurate (sub 1/2 MOA) at ranges out to 1000 yards was a very good choice for several reasons.

First Savage has a good button rifled barrel. It may be on the rough side, but it is buttoned. Europeans have worked out lapping out hammer forged barrels but that is not done in the US.

Secondly while the stock on the 12FV is very low grade, with the recoil of the 6.5 Creed, its going to hold up.

Thirdly, the recoil is low. Even with good pads and spending a lot of time at it, at the end of a days shooting while I don't flinch, I do "hunker" up wit the 30-06.

One reason the top shooters use smaller calibers is they can shoot without an affects of recoil. As those off the shelf 30-06 loads are hunting loads, they are in the upper range and full recoil.

The Savage action has excellent growth potential, Boyds makes great low coast stocks (Thumb Hole, Super Grip, laminated that are as good as the very expensive composite stocks)

If you shoot enough you are going to wear out a barrel and the Savage is both easy (low cost) for a Gunsmith or the shooter to replace the barrel and there are a lot of good to outstanding g barrel makes from button (Shilen (all calibers) Lother Walther (in select calibers) , Criterions ) to Litja etc that make cut rifled barrels . The button rifled large firm make a ready to install barrel for that gun at under $400.

It has the better Top Bolt Release, it has the segmented nut (easy to take off) and it has the acu trigger which is at least a good TARGET starter trigger.

The 111 is a light rifle, it has a thin pad (which of course could be changed). Its going to hammer you.

So no, jumping in and using a 30-06 for TARGT shooting is not a good choice for a beginner and is a dubious choice even for an experienced shooter.

Keep in mind, I love the 30-06. I built the BTH 111 up with that caliber choice. Its iconic, I love the cartridge, its got a huge upside capability and a amazing history. Its still not my choice for a true target gun and its not my choice for a starter target cartridge let alone in a light 111.

I shoot a 7.5 Swiss (Savage action) with a Varmint barrel (vs a Bull) . Its noticeably heavier recoil than the 30-06 and its loaded up the same as it is in a modern rifle. Even that bit of profile change makes a different (and yes, for the argumentative crowd it has the same stock type as the BTH 111 Bull (a bit heavier actually but same Thumb Hole and same mfg)

The 308 I can shoot all day long, its just enough less that I am fine with it (I like to shoot my other calibers so I don't)

Keep in mind though I used a 7mm for all my hunting years. I am used to recoil and know how to manage it (and have learned as I have gone along as well, each gun now has a 1 inch butt pad)

And yes you can buy cheap 30-06 ammo, and eventually hit a gong at 5million light years.

The point is, when someone says TARGET and uses the word sniper (yes he says not sniper but that implies wanting to get somewhere reasonably accurate) , I am going to assume they want to have as good as accuracy as they can achieve.

Maybe like me its then good enough, maybe like some he will want to get more competitive. That setup will go it, and it will do it to 1000 yards.

In my book that's 1/2 MOA (longer ranges then the wind read and shimmer ability becomes a factor more than having a 1/10 MOA tack driver at 300 yards)
 
The stock barrel isn't as bad as people say about walking with heat but you do have to manage it and know HOW it walks. There will be a pattern to it you will only recognize after shooting it enough.
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I have to admit you achieved something I would never even attempt. I did shoot mine and it was clear it was not stable.

Some are and some aren't, but then rather than shooting you are trying to map patterns with how hot it is, how many rounds its run through it, how long between shots.

You spend more time mapping than shooting and while some may have that kind of mind and patience, most don't. I would need a super computer to keep track of all the variable and where I should air for and when.

And you get that one that whips unpredictably and you will be in the looney bin.

You want to add frustration to target shooting then yes, a light barrel will certainly do that.

Again I based it on a gun and caliber that would do what the OP wanted without all the other chaff to sort through.
 
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