Savage action screws torquing. Which front & back?

[stagpanther]

You don't need anything special to remove the screws--a hex key should do, I wouldn't worry about any precision in the the torque pressure or reassemble "voodoo" since it's not operating properly anyway. Like I said--verify the proper operation (or not) of the action outside the stock. Your description of the bolt release "reignites" my suspicion of fitment/inlet issue. Here's one you can do without any worries or tools--can you easily remove the bolt--and does the bolt release go all the way down when pressing without any binding? It's usually part of the trigger's sear bracket and a good indicator when it's binding. Savage's cross pins that hold the sear and trigger to the receiver can sometimes drift out of alignment easily.

Do you actually have the owner's manual and have read it thoroughly? (don't mean that in a mean way) You may want to check the bolt when it's out to make sure it's working properly as well. Savages often come with loose screws in my experience

 

[Colorado Redneck]

PistolerO
Do you have the tool required to adjust the Accutrigger? It requires a little gizmo to do that.

 

[Nathan]

I would snug up both the front and rear screws, not tight, just enough so the action doesn't move in the stock. Tighten the front screw 1st, then the rear. The middle screw is just there to help hold the bottom metal in place. It doesn't need to be really tight. In fact too tight is bad.

This has been said twice now and is not accurate.

The bolt on each side of the magazine is to be torqued to 35 in lbs.

The rear tapping screw is to be just tightened secure.....I run down to no looseness and give it just 1/16 to 1/8 turn to secure.

 

[stagpanther]

This has been said twice now and is not accurate.

That is because people often refer to the rear-most screw as a "receiver" screw, when it really isn't, it just balances the triggerguard to the stock. There is often a difference between torquing down an action to a OEM Tupperware stock and a wood stock that has been properly pillared and bedded, so I don't pay much attention to the "torque advice"--they are just starting points, eventually your rifle will show what the best consistency setting is. Wood stocks have come to me for work where the bottom metal inlet is compressed down from overtorquing the rear screw--and the wood area in front of the trigger inlet cracked.

That's a great picture--thanks for tracking it down--I assume it's an actual 12 action?

The issues I commonly see with Boyd's stocks that require some refinement to the stock to get the trigger to function properly I can associate with this picture. Where the bolt release (which is part of the sear bracket) goes through the inlet in the stock, often the stock inlet needs widening and lengthening in order for the release to function properly. Another "problematic" area is the where the bottom front of the sear bracket comes very close to the rear receiver screw--that's a tough one because Boyd's leaves as much wood as they can in the inlet since that's a high stress area, but it almost always impedes that bracket without some judicious material removal, I automatically would pillar and devcon the rear receiver screw area in a wood stock for a savage for this reason alone. The trigger shelf (for lack of better description, the long part of the trigger that sticks out front with the notch for the sear to catch) also requires adequate space in the inlet. Once in a while I see a trigger that can't properly be depressed all the way back within the trigger guard due to alignment issues of the action within the stock and the triggerguard inlet.

 

[Nathan]

I assume it's an actual 12 action?

I have no idea. I’m not sure what makes a 12 a 12. It looks like a 110 trap door magazine...staggerfeed??

You make a good point about torque....proper torque is where things don’t loosen and the action doesn’t shift. Probably bedding changes this too as well as stock quality.

I find a standard factory gun usually torques 25-35 in lbs, bedded 40-60 in lbs, chassis 50-80 in lbs.....80 is only 6.7 ft lbs.

Where the bolt release (which is part of the sear bracket) goes through the inlet in the stock, often the stock inlet needs widening and lengthening in order for the release to function properly. Another "problematic" area is the where the bottom front of the sear bracket comes very close to the rear receiver screw--that's a tough one because Boyd's leaves as much wood as they can in the inlet since that's a high stress area, but it almost always impedes that bracket without some judicious material removal, I automatically would pillar and devcon the rear receiver screw area in a wood stock for a savage for this reason alone.

Savage should have clearance cut the sear, IMO, to get more wood in there and to get a better pillar in there. That is one of the reasons I put my last Savage in a chassis.

 

[stagpanther]

I'm not positive, and this obviously doesn't apply to the OP's receiver, but Savage I believe does in fact make single-shot target receivers that do have 3 receiver screws since there is no machined magazine slot.

 

[Pistoler0]

PistolerO
Do you have the tool required to adjust the Accutrigger? It requires a little gizmo to do that.

Colorado Redneck I don't think I do, but apparently one can do it with fingers?

I called the smith yesterday and he confirmed what you said, that it was probably the trigger being adjusted too light (from the symptoms).

I am waiting for a torque wrench to show up from Amazon and I will tackle the project then.

 

[Pistoler0]

Here's one you can do without any worries or tools--can you easily remove the bolt--and does the bolt release go all the way down when pressing without any binding?

The bolt release does not appear to bind.

Savage I believe does in fact make single-shot target receivers that do have 3 receiver screws

The smith told me that the forward most and the middle screw are the ones that hold the action (picture in the OP), and that the screw at the rear of the trigger guard is just a wood holding screw that is not relevant for accuracy.

I will come back to this thread when I the torque wrenches get here and I get started with the project. Maybe I'll make a video to show how the safety is locking up so we can have it for reference in the forum.

Is there a way to post video here btw? Its a little antiquated that it only allows us to post pictures.

 

[Pistoler0]

This has been said twice now and is not accurate.

The bolt on each side of the magazine is to be torqued to 35 in lbs.

The rear tapping screw is to be just tightened secure.....I run down to no looseness and give it just 1/16 to 1/8 turn to secure.

Yep that's what the smith said.
Although he recommended 22 to 25 for the front screw and
up to 20 for the one in the back.

 

[stagpanther]

So pistoler--did your smith essentially say you personally adjust the trigger that he worked on rather than send the rifle back to him? Nothing wrong with that--as long as you are pretty familiar with all the adjustments and how to test for complete and proper functioning--which should be easy to follow in your owner's manual. I would verify from your smith if there was anything he did to the trigger assembly beyond simply turning down the triggerpull weight.

I still say the best way to check the functioning is to first pull the action from the stock and test it. You're not risking anything by doing so.

 

[Marco Califo]

The picture above shows the Accutrigger, two bolts through the stock. The back third wood screw, into the stock, is to hold the rear of the trigger guard

 

[Pistoler0]

So pistoler--did your smith essentially say you personally adjust the trigger that he worked on rather than send the rifle back to him?
I would verify from your smith if there was anything he did to the trigger assembly beyond simply turning down the triggerpull weight.

I still say the best way to check the functioning is to first pull the action from the stock and test it. You're not risking anything by doing so.

He gave me the option to send it back, but I'm going to try to adjust it myself.
He didn't do anything to the trigger assembly.

 

[stagpanther]

He gave me the option to send it back, but I'm going to try to adjust it myself.
He didn't do anything to the trigger assembly.

That's good, hopefully it truly is nothing more than the triggerpull adjustment--and this will be a great way to learn about your rifle.

 

[Scorch]

A few tips-
* There are two screws at the back of the trigger. One is for over travel and the other is for the safety.
* You set the safety with the rifle cocked so that the trigger does not move, but not too tight or the safety will not go on either. Work the safety several times to make sure it engages and disengages.
* Overtravel is set so that the sear releases AND clears the trigger nose.. If you set it too tight the sear will hang up on the front screw when you pull the trigger.
* The screw at the front of the trigger is for sear engagement. If you are running a Savage factory trigger, set plenty of engagement as the trigger bar is a casting and will wear rapidly, giving you the issue described above, the sear will release when the rifle is cocked by just jarring the rifle.
* The other screw on the side at the front is for weight of pull, set it above 3 lbs for a Savage because the sear spring is heavier than 2-1/2 lbs and will push the trigger off if it is set too low.

All these are a good reason to go to a Timney or Rifle Basix.

 

[stagpanther]

Excellent points Scorch--easy, succinct bullets (as opposed to my ramblings ; ) ). I looked around on the net for a diagram of the trigger so the OP could visually match up those points but couldn't find one with all of them.

 

[Pistoler0]

Finally reporting back, problem solved!:

Hello all, I finally got my wheeler set of torque wrenches and went to work on my Savage.

The smith that serviced it told me that of the three screws visible in the OP, I only needed to bother with the two forward most ones; the rearmost just holds the trigger guard in place.

So I disassembled the action which was straight forward and went to work on the trigger. I do not have a Savage accutrigger tool, but a very small screw driver bit (the size used for small computer or smarphone screws) did the job. I turned the screw clock-wise 1-1/2 full turn and tested the trigger pull with a trigger scale: A little over 2 lbs.

I retested trigger pull about 10 times and the trigger pull is consistent at around 2lbs. But most importantly: no problems with the safety binding or the trigger firing upon closing the action. So the trigger had been set too light and it was definitely what caused the original problem.

Increasing the accutrigger weight completely solved the issue.

To reassemble the rifle, I found conflicting instructions as to how much to torque the two action screws: Savage recommends 25 to 35 inch-lbs for laminate stocks. Most advice suggests that it is the tension in the back action screw (would be the center screw in the OP photo) that affects accuracy. But also that this screw is the one who has a tendency to get untightened with rifle use.

so following instruction I proceeded as follows:
- tightened both action screws by hand so they hold the action.
- rest rifle vertically on its butt and gently tap it on the floor so the action and recoil lug gets seated.
- tighten the front most screw to 20 inch-lbs, then tighten the back action screw to 12 inch-lbs.
- un-tighten the front screw slightly, then tighten the back action screw to 20 inch-lbs, and bring the front screw up to 25 inch lbs.
- Lastly tighten the back screw to 25 inch-lbs and bring the front screw up to 30 inch lbs.

Thats where I left the screws: Front action screw tightened to 30 inch-lbs. Back action screw tightened to 25 inch-lbs. Both are in spec with Savage's recommendations of 25-35 inch lbs.

Some including my smith suggested to leave the back screw at around 20 inch-lbs then maybe play up with its tension little by little to see how the rifle groups its shots, but I resolved to follow the manufacturer's indications and leave the back action screw at 25 inch - lbs which is the lowest they recommend.

I have not shot the rifle but I have been dry-firing it and the trigger and safety work as they are supposed to, cleanly firing at 2 lbs of finger pressure.

Thank you everyone for your replies, they really helped.

 

[stagpanther]

Yay! Now all you need to do is find a carrier for your AR 47.

 

[Pistoler0]

Yay! Now all you need to do is find a carrier for your AR 47.

I did! : ) (I had to pay $200 for it, I feel stoopid)

and I went through an ordeal installing an extra power extractor spring and an enhanced firing pin. It was really really difficult getting the retaining pins in. I am posting another thread about it.

Now I have to go shoot them both, probably tomorrow Friday : )

 

[Marco Califo]

Savage Accutrigger Tool

The adjustment tool comes with the rifle. 1" long with a yellow knob. Its in the box in a packet with the manual and cable lock.

I have changed stocks back and forth on Savage rifles, and unscrewed and then tightened when reassembling. I never used a torque wrench. I also never had any problem. Boyds says to hold the barrel in the center of the channel. I just tighten by feel, just past serious resistance. You could also use Lok-tite. Glad everything is OK.