Savage 311

There is nothing in its price range that will hold up as well. They are blue collar working guns. Ive got one in 410 that I use to shoot marsh hens. (Rails). There is no way in hell Im going to put my AYA in the boat to get covered in mud and salt water and possibly go overboard. Gun snobbery shouldnt get in the way of common sense...
 
the Savage/Fox/Stevens guns are crude and really not worth the trouble
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Exactly my experience and why I made the comments above. The internal parts are poorly made and with cheap metal. Like I said earlier they are good for a lifetime of shooting, as long as you are one of those guys who only shoot a box or 2 a year. Any more than that and the internal parts start failing quickly. Once that happens you have a gun suitable for hanging over the fireplace because repair is more costly (if possible) than they are worth.

The BSE is even worse from a mechanical standpoint. The more complex ejectors vs extractors give lots of problems.

I've owned 2. My first ever gun purchased in 1974, a BSE. I kept it 10 years and it literally spent more time at a gunsmith's shop than in my home. After I got it working for about the 6th time I sold it at a Flea market cheap. The other was thrown as part of a trade (a 311) and it never worked right either. Sold it cheap at a gunshow.

If you only have a $250 budget, there are lots of pumps in that price range that will actually work.
 
For $250-350 I'd like to know what better choices there are.
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The best ones that come to mind are the AyAs that they made for Sears - GunsInternational.com, Cabela's Gun Library and other places routinely have them in that price range. These were well built in the 50s and 60s and, IMO, are the sleeper deal for a decent SxS that will last

If you truly believe that the 311 swings well and is well balanced, I can only surmise that you have not used the AyA #2, an Arrietta, Webley and Scott, or even an Ugartechea, most of them - if you are willing to go used and really look around, can be found in what I will call a reasonable price point for their quality. It might not seem reasonable to many here, especially if you think 2-300 is a lot for a gun, let alone a SxS, but there deals to be found
 
jmr40, I beg to differ...

cheap shotguns from a price point, yes. But compared to some of the plastic junk produced today, the 311's proved to be fine little shotguns. My 40's vintage 5100 has no plastic or pot metal parts in it...
 
I had two 311s. No probs with either, but shell counts ran under 1K while they were mine.

One was a 12 gauge family gun I worked into a Lupara. Barrels shortened to 25" and jug choked by a smith friend. Stock redone with Tung oil and given a straight grip. Solid Pachmyer pad. A cousin on the Sicilian side has it now. He shoots a little skeet with it and hunts rabbits over his beagles carrying it.He's quite fond of it. It was marked Ranger but made by Stevens Pre WWII. The relative who gave it to me had bought it in the early 40s then lost interest in hunting after D Day.

The other was a Stevens 20 Mom bought as a farm sale for $10. Good price, but since it was shortened at both ends to an illegal length, the barrels ended up under a manure pile before the Feds could cart Mom off. The action was taken to a smith friend who found new barrels and a stock. I ended up with a nice little bird gun for less than $200.

I doubt any 311 will hold up well as a dedicated clays gun, but for general use they have lots of happy owners....
 
you're right Dave...

they would never stand up to a season of sporting clays, in some ways. I doubt they would break, but who would want to take the physical beating over firing thousands of rounds!! :eek:
 
My gunsmith had to remachine some internals on my BSE - a nice 20 that had had MAYBE 3000 rounds through it in the 30 years I have owned it since I bought it new - he showed me some of the parts, very thin springs, rough machining, etc.

IF your idea of use is 4 boxes a year in the dove field, and you don't mind swinging that 4X4 wood, it should do very well. I have almost as many rounds through my S&W Elite I just bought last year and there are no signs of trouble - no popping open when firing, no gritty triggers, and (thank God) no beaver tail forearm and auto safety

To those who think the 311 is the ultimate in SxS guns from a handling and quality perspective, please do yourself a favor and find a way to try some of the brands I mentioned - you will then understand what I have been saying about comparing a pig on a shovel with a lithe-handling, well balanced gun...;)
 
If you only have a $250 budget, there are lots of pumps in that price range that will actually work.
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I really dislike pump actions personally. They work just fine and I've shot them a bunch, but the type of hunting I do a SxS would do much better. Quicker follow up shots, the ability to carry buckshot in one chamber, bird shot in the other and I could go on.

There's just something about a double barrel that gets my heart racing when I handle and shoot one. O/U are a little to expensive for my taste and most look far to pretty to take through the bog.

they would never stand up to a season of sporting clays, in some ways. I doubt they would break, but who would want to take the physical beating over firing thousands of rounds!!
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Trust me, the "swinging the pig on the shovel" and the "physical beating" does not worry me. I'm about 6' 4", 240 lbs., and I do concrete work for my summer job when not at college. If I had a shotgun that was literally a 4 x 4 beam I could still whip that thing around like nobody's business. :D

I'm actually planning on skeet shooting with it if the guy goes through with the sale. I know it's not the best gun for the job, but I'll get that 2nd clay a helluva lot quicker with that double than trying to reload one of my single shots.
 
Well the only other SXS's I 've had any extensive experience with would be my grandfather's Greeners. I don't know where the experts on the board would rank those. Do I think my 311's are in the same class, not by half. However I will say that I shoot a hell of lot more than 4 boxes a year, usually shoot more than that each time I hit the range. Granted, after about 15 years of that I did have to replace the springs and pins. I have a rather nice vintage wingmaster that I use for trap, but where as I shoot 20-23 on the skeet field with my 311, those scores drop to the mid teens with the pumpgun. If I ever run across a AyA when I'm in buying mode I may give it a try, but I ain't hurting with my old utility guns.
 
The internal parts are poorly made and with cheap metal. Like I said earlier they are good for a lifetime of shooting, as long as you are one of those guys who only shoot a box or 2 a year.
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Bullspit. They're not as smooth or as graceful as my L.C.Smith but they're not junk either. Mine have untold numbers of rounds thru them. I never had any trouble. CAS shooters shoot the Hell out of them and lemme tell ya them boys put some lead down range.
 
Personally, I consider the Savage-Stevens doubles great utility guns. No, they are obviously not refined guns, but my dad had a Savage Fox for probably 30 years, a gun I still have today. At least a couple or three thousand shells through it. Never one problem...nothing ever broke... still locks up tight and solid.
 
The 311's are what they are, a good utlity SXS. They are not junk, nor are they Parkers. You dont need a $2500 dollar shotgun to be successful in the field. Ive seen alot of ducks and doves and deer fall in front of 311's and Fox B models. They were a very common working mans shotgun at one time.
Too much time at the skeet and trap range will skew you view of reality. Alot of those guys are more worried about impressing there squadmates and rarely if ever venture out into the field. Their ideas of what is necessary get a little out of touch.
 
Too much time at the skeet and trap range will skew you view of reality. Alot of those guys are more worried about impressing there squadmates and rarely if ever venture out into the field. Their ideas of what is necessary get a little out of touch.
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Not hardly - impressions come from results, not bling. Around here most hunt all fall and winter.

What is necessary depends on your usage - on the target field, necessary is a gun that can handle the volume of rounds and has the handling of a high performance sports car. The 311 can do neither of those.

In the field, a lightweight, well-balanced and handling gun is more responsive to a sudden covey or grouse taking off. The 311 is neither light nor well-balanced.

That seems to be more in touch - using the best tool for the job.....;)
 
The best tool for the job is often the tool at hand. The tool at hand is often the one the user can afford. Specialized tools are nice but not necessary for success. And they dont make more utilitarian tools junk. My family made its living for a long while in the woods and on the waters. The best hunters were hardly ever the Orvis/LL Bean gun club crowd. Those were the ones to watch and make sure they didnt get excited and hurt you or themselves when it was time to shoot. They talked an impressive game in the clubhouse and on the range, but more often than not were a dissappointment in the field.

I coach a youth shotgun team, and more times than I can count Ive had a kid come up showing some real potential, until some know it all jackass begins to pontificate on how they need better equipment. Usually the kid doesnt come back. If he does, he now believes his equipment is second rate, has a built in excuse for missing and his confidence is shattered.

Expensive specialized shotguns are nice, but not at all necessary for success on the range or in the field. I have a well used 870 thats taken numerous limits of doves and ducks with as many shells. Its run numerous 25's in trap and skeet. Its a safe queen now, because I have "better" shotguns, but if I ever need to I would not hesitate to use it anywhere any time.
 
Expensive specialized shotguns are nice, but not at all necessary for success on the range or in the field. I have a well used 870 thats taken numerous limits of doves and ducks with as many shells. Its run numerous 25's in trap and skeet. Its a safe queen now, because I have "better" shotguns, but if I ever need to I would not hesitate to use it anywhere any time.
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Are you comparing an 870 to the OP's 311? - like comparing a pickup to a Pinto.

No one is talking about expensive guns, not unless your idea of expensive is anything over $200. Sorry, nice story about the kids though, glad to see you're helping them get off to a good start
 
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