Saturday Night Specials
- Thread starter martin08
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carguychris
New member
Golly, I hope you're speaking figuratively. If blowing people away with a cheap handgun was my idea of fun, I wouldn't admit to it on a public forum...
orchidhunter
Moderator
As part of the Gun Control Act of 1968, the federal government banned the importation of "Saturday Night Specials" - poorly made, easily concealable, inexpensive handguns. Congress did not, however, ban the domestic manufacture, sale or possession of Saturday Night Specials. In 1995, four of the top five handguns traced to crimes were Saturday Night Specials made in California. The greater Los Angeles area is home to six firearms manufacturers known as the "Ring of Fire" companies. Those companies produce 80 percent of all Saturday Night Specials manufactured in the nation and 34 percent of all American-made handguns.
For the handgun makers of Southern California, the key to success has been keeping the price of their guns as low as possible. For example, the Phoenix Arms .25 ACP Model Raven costs its manufacturer only $19 per handgun, and can be assembled in just a few minutes. Keeping costs down means shortcuts in quality of design, materials, and performance. Many of these guns are made with metal so soft it can be shaved with a knife. An article in Gun Tests notes that Saturday Night Specials are kept inexpensive through the use of inferior metals, most notably zinc, and through the omission of safety features. In fact, Saturday Night Specials are made of such inferior metals that some recyclers refuses to take them for scrap. orchidhunter
For the handgun makers of Southern California, the key to success has been keeping the price of their guns as low as possible. For example, the Phoenix Arms .25 ACP Model Raven costs its manufacturer only $19 per handgun, and can be assembled in just a few minutes. Keeping costs down means shortcuts in quality of design, materials, and performance. Many of these guns are made with metal so soft it can be shaved with a knife. An article in Gun Tests notes that Saturday Night Specials are kept inexpensive through the use of inferior metals, most notably zinc, and through the omission of safety features. In fact, Saturday Night Specials are made of such inferior metals that some recyclers refuses to take them for scrap. orchidhunter
carguychris
New member
I don't intend to make this topic veer off in a political direction, but I'm almost positive that I've read an article that wrote off that statistic as a misleading manipulation of FBI trace data. For the purposes of an FBI trace, guns "used in a crime" includes ones routinely picked up by police during arrests and investigations having nothing to do with the gun itself (e.g. a gun found in a car's glove compartment during a DWI arrest, or one found while searching the home of a dope pusher). Since most people arrested for minor nonviolent crimes are low on the socioeconomic ladder, it makes sense that many of their guns would match the SNS profile.
The author followed up with an analysis showing that guns used in actual violent crimes were far less likely to be SNSs, and that criminals who committed crimes where the gun was actually fired were even less likely to have used an SNS.
Good perspective on the GC Act of '68, Orchidhunter. And good perspective on statistics, Carguychris.
Prior to 1968, and Bobby Kennedy's assasination, there was no restriction on importation of smaller handguns or SNS's. After '68 a pocket gun, so to speak, would need to be manufactured in the good ole USA to be legal, thus spawning a plethera of new factories in the Ring of Fire (Raven, Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, etc).
This post-'68 FIE Titan in .25acp was assembled with Italian design and parts in Miami, FLA and therefore legal to distribute and sell in the States once again.
Its predecessor, this FIE Titan in .22 short, was pre-'68 and is stamped, "Made in Italy".
With a "Coat of Arms" and everything!
Prior to 1968, and Bobby Kennedy's assasination, there was no restriction on importation of smaller handguns or SNS's. After '68 a pocket gun, so to speak, would need to be manufactured in the good ole USA to be legal, thus spawning a plethera of new factories in the Ring of Fire (Raven, Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, etc).
This post-'68 FIE Titan in .25acp was assembled with Italian design and parts in Miami, FLA and therefore legal to distribute and sell in the States once again.
Its predecessor, this FIE Titan in .22 short, was pre-'68 and is stamped, "Made in Italy".
With a "Coat of Arms" and everything!
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orchidhunter
Moderator
This link http://www.saturdaynightspecial.org/ has some good to fair info on SNS. orchidhunter
I could see a metal recycler being concerned about a gun frame or slide. He doesn't know why someone is trying to get rid of it and he doesn't want to risk being an accessory to a crime. On the other hand, a recycler who deals in high grade special alloys may not take an ordinary piece of zinc. I doubt it's a lower grade zinc than used in ordinary household products. The whole article seemed very slanted to me.
A little historical perspective....
Prior to Bobby Kennedy's assasination and the Gun Control Act of 1968, small frame and caliber handguns (SNS's) were legally imported into the United States.
Following the '68 ban, these type firearms either had to be manufactured entirely or assembled in the states from foreign parts. Thus the race was on for inexpensive and small handgun manufacturers. The "Ring of Fire" sprung up in California, spawning the Raven, Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, etc.
Here is a pre-ban SNS. <TITAN> CA 22 SHORT
Made in Italy, with a "Coat of Arms" and everything! 007 style..
Prior to Bobby Kennedy's assasination and the Gun Control Act of 1968, small frame and caliber handguns (SNS's) were legally imported into the United States.
Following the '68 ban, these type firearms either had to be manufactured entirely or assembled in the states from foreign parts. Thus the race was on for inexpensive and small handgun manufacturers. The "Ring of Fire" sprung up in California, spawning the Raven, Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, etc.
Here is a pre-ban SNS. <TITAN> CA 22 SHORT
Made in Italy, with a "Coat of Arms" and everything! 007 style..
I have a few that do great, some that do all right, and some that just do. Out of all the SNS that I have bought, I would say I am not 100% happy with is my CA380, the one I have now is my second (mailed the first one back) due to the frame cracking. I ran a couple hundred trouble free rounds through it and now it's starting to act up, but that's not the actual complaint. What is the complaint? It shoots Minute of Barn!
I don't remember where someone mentioned them, but I think it was actually here that got me to looking on GB to see what an RG is and...
RG 14-S. It looked like a nice pistol and was cheap, so I bid. I took it home and out to the range. DA was very heavy, and didn't set them all off. I clipped and streched the spring and about wore off the rims of the spent shells I had. A box of 550 later and I noticed that it started to shave lead. I now only feed it .22 CB Short (when I can find them)
RG-63.(.38 Spl) It was missing the cylinder pin retainer pin assy(Colt SAA style) and the cylinder wouldn't rotate. Why did I buy it?.. I have NOOOO idea! I got it home and took it apart, and the inside was packed with cosmoline. The good part: it took me about 5 minutes to figure out how it goes back together. The bad part: The actual reassembly took three days. I ordered the parts kit from GB, but thankfully I didn't need them. Oddly enough the pats I received looked exactly like the schematic on Numrich, but were different from the gun I had in my hand. I already had empty .38 so I spent a day dry firing it, and it works well.
RG-26. I figured I already had the other two and thought it looked neat, so I went for it. No F&B needed, it shoots great just as long as it's fed WWB, but the jams are a breeze to clear(now that I think about it the only gun that likes Federal American Eagle is my Hi-Point), and speaking of...
Hi Point CF380 The only thing I don't like about this gun (any more) is it being in .380. I imagine I would feel the same if it was in 9mm, but since I don't own any 9mm... It shoots great.
Davis D-38. All of the parts for the Cobra Big Bore derringers work for this gun and it was cheap. I bought it and a box of 50 158gr lrn for almost $100. I took it out and was bound and determined to shoot that box of ammunition through that gun. The farthes I could get away from the target (pie plate) and still hit it was fifteen feet with the bottom barrel and ten feet with the top. It shoots nice patterns with snake shot.
Jennings .22. F&B, shoot the hell out of it, I've shot this so much that I have lost track as to the round count, fun little gun. The only complaint is the sight picture looks like this:
OOO
The rounded the sights so much that I cannot pick up a consistent sight picture.
I don't remember where someone mentioned them, but I think it was actually here that got me to looking on GB to see what an RG is and...
RG 14-S. It looked like a nice pistol and was cheap, so I bid. I took it home and out to the range. DA was very heavy, and didn't set them all off. I clipped and streched the spring and about wore off the rims of the spent shells I had. A box of 550 later and I noticed that it started to shave lead. I now only feed it .22 CB Short (when I can find them)
RG-63.(.38 Spl) It was missing the cylinder pin retainer pin assy(Colt SAA style) and the cylinder wouldn't rotate. Why did I buy it?.. I have NOOOO idea! I got it home and took it apart, and the inside was packed with cosmoline. The good part: it took me about 5 minutes to figure out how it goes back together. The bad part: The actual reassembly took three days. I ordered the parts kit from GB, but thankfully I didn't need them. Oddly enough the pats I received looked exactly like the schematic on Numrich, but were different from the gun I had in my hand. I already had empty .38 so I spent a day dry firing it, and it works well.
RG-26. I figured I already had the other two and thought it looked neat, so I went for it. No F&B needed, it shoots great just as long as it's fed WWB, but the jams are a breeze to clear(now that I think about it the only gun that likes Federal American Eagle is my Hi-Point), and speaking of...
Hi Point CF380 The only thing I don't like about this gun (any more) is it being in .380. I imagine I would feel the same if it was in 9mm, but since I don't own any 9mm... It shoots great.
Davis D-38. All of the parts for the Cobra Big Bore derringers work for this gun and it was cheap. I bought it and a box of 50 158gr lrn for almost $100. I took it out and was bound and determined to shoot that box of ammunition through that gun. The farthes I could get away from the target (pie plate) and still hit it was fifteen feet with the bottom barrel and ten feet with the top. It shoots nice patterns with snake shot.
Jennings .22. F&B, shoot the hell out of it, I've shot this so much that I have lost track as to the round count, fun little gun. The only complaint is the sight picture looks like this:
OOO
The rounded the sights so much that I cannot pick up a consistent sight picture.
"Back in the day" I absolutly craved either an RG-22 or a Raven 25. They had the one redeeming quality that I absolutly HAD to have in a handgun. They were cheap. 
About $30.00 NIB if I remember correctly. I used to see them in the cabinet at the GEM store in Richmond.
I didn't have the $30.00 so I never got one.
About $30.00 NIB if I remember correctly. I used to see them in the cabinet at the GEM store in Richmond. I didn't have the $30.00 so I never got one.
The worst firearm I ever owner was a Jennings .25. While plinking at my stepfather land the slide actually flew off the gun backwards and past my ear. There is a small retainer (little metal hook) that is supposed to hold the slide on. It simply snapped in half. My local gun shop said they had seen the retainer on cheap guns break before, but have not heard of a slide flying backward during firing. Luckily I was not actually looking down the slide aming the little gun, but just point and shooting. I will never purchase a cheap made firearm. My life is not worth saving a few bucks.
The second worst firearm I ever purchased was a Sig Trailside target model. While this gun did not nearly kill me, it did malfunction constantly. For a .22 it was pretty expensive and did not live up to the reputation. It has NEVER made it through a full magazine without jamming. My local gun shop, where I purchased the gun, said it was because I was not using powerful enough ammo. I eventually tried every brand and power ammo in the shop. When that didn't work, they said to contact the manufacturer. Sig blamed it on the magazine. They only provided one with the purchase and said there was a defect in the magazines shipped with the pistols. They were backordered four 3 months. When I FINALLY received the new magazine, the problem continued. I contacted SIG again and they told me to allow a 'break in period.' I had! I was very disappointed.
I will never buy from Sig or purchase a low quality (that I know of) firearm again. I know plenty of people love Sigs and have had very good experience with their products. My only experience was bad from the product and customer service.
The second worst firearm I ever purchased was a Sig Trailside target model. While this gun did not nearly kill me, it did malfunction constantly. For a .22 it was pretty expensive and did not live up to the reputation. It has NEVER made it through a full magazine without jamming. My local gun shop, where I purchased the gun, said it was because I was not using powerful enough ammo. I eventually tried every brand and power ammo in the shop. When that didn't work, they said to contact the manufacturer. Sig blamed it on the magazine. They only provided one with the purchase and said there was a defect in the magazines shipped with the pistols. They were backordered four 3 months. When I FINALLY received the new magazine, the problem continued. I contacted SIG again and they told me to allow a 'break in period.' I had! I was very disappointed.
I will never buy from Sig or purchase a low quality (that I know of) firearm again. I know plenty of people love Sigs and have had very good experience with their products. My only experience was bad from the product and customer service.
I bought a nickle plated Raven 25 about 18 years ago new for about $60. I carry it in an ankle holster as a backup to my CC Sig. I would use it if I was unable to find a rock to throw. Having said that, I have put about 300 rounds through it, and it has never failed to go pop.
David the Gnome
New member
This is as small and cheap as I'll go:
Let it Bleed
New member
I know that I feel safer without the importation of the German manufactured PPK. 
Lost Sheep
New member
Which also prevented the importation of the excellent Walther PPK/S for a time, until Walther thoughtfully made the mazagine extension so it would pass the dimensional test.Orchidhunter said:
That sounds like a useful statistic for debates, considering that California is holding itself up as normative State for the rest of us. Where can I found the source?
Thanks. It is enlightening to read these forums.
Lost Sheep