Safety on or off?

As I said, it was just a hypothetical question. I didn't mean to suggest that I train that way.

As for the safety problems with autos, just one word: Glock. (And trigger finger control--the finger does not go into the trigger guard until ready to discharge a round.)

Revolvers are nice in that you have the advantage of an empty chamber combined with no safeties to worry about. But if I'm going to carry, I want more than five rounds and a more fumble-free way to reload. (Plus, I think most revolvers are too bulky.)
 
There's no gun I've shot more often then the G3/HK41, but still it happened to me that I had lined up the sights on the target, applied pressure on the trigger - and nothing happened, forgot to push the safety off. This happened to me during training, without adrenalin, stress or confusion.

So far I only own one gun - a Glock. Finger off the trigger = safe, finger on the trigger = ready to go (bang).
 
Anyone who's been to SF in recent years knows that even the "nice" parts of downtown are heavily infested with vagrants and drug-addicted bums

SpyGuy, I was in Frisco last year. My hotel was right at the gates of China Town. I decided to take a run through Union square and then down in and through the Tender Loin - just for ****s and giggles.

The TL may have its share of "beautiful people" but they were rather tame compared to my visit to East St. Louis.

Large metro areas are a nice place to visit - even nicer to leave.

Good luck. Have fun. Be safe.





:eek: :eek:
 
I have a Glock. If I'm feeling optimistic, my safety is on; if I'm feeling pessimistic, it's off. :)

- Gabe
 
How many of you feel that there should be a positive safety on your semi-auto? as opposed to not having a thumb released safety on your weapons? (frame or slide?)
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Count me in!

I prefer loaded chamber, safety on, hammer down (or half cocked? whatever it is) on my DA USP9f.

Regards,

New_comer :cool:
 
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When I snick off that safety, I know that it really is a deadly force situation...therefore, once that determination is made......no more hesistation, right?
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When I pull a gun "it really is a deadly force situation." Simple as that.

I don't rely on a manual safety to determine when "it really is a deadly force situation."
 
I prefer external safeties on SA pistols only, for obvious reasons.
 
To me, that's my last means of defense before that gun is about to go "Bang!"
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Uh-oh! :rolleyes: Here, i have to disagree with u! I believe the safety is there primarily to decrease the chance of an AD should the trigger 1) snag into clothing when holstering 2) that damn finger just cant help caressing the trigger in a non-firing situation. Other than these two reasons, i believe it is truly a burden to train yourself to do that extra step automatically, during a deliberate firing sequence (i.e. when you have already determined the existence of a threat serious enough to justify pulling out a gun), to unlock the safety b4 the gun could go off. It may backfire on you in a life threatening instant, if under stress, your "presence of mind" becomes "absent". You may end up squeezing the trigger till the gun spurts oil, not bullets.:p

"What if the gun is taken away from u? the BG may still have to figure out how to unlock the weapon, and it'll give u time to run away!" so they say. I think when you're in this situation already, it's no longer "life-threatening", but a "guaranteed-death" situation. And that's not very pleasant. :(

Be safe,

New_comer:cool:
 
SpyGuy,

First, you state that you don't carry concealed because it is illegal in the "PRK". This would explain your lack of understanding about the proper way to carry a concealed firearm and how and when to deploy said firearm.

Second, you are probably single. Hopefully, if you were married and or had children, you would take the effort to do some of the things necessary to protect them; ie, carry.

But wait, you say it is illegal in the PRK. SO WHAT! What is your life worth, what is your spouse's life worth, what are your children's lives worth. When you are ready to accept your repsonsibilities to yourself and others you will do the morally right thing.

Morally right thing? Yes. Read Luke 22:36. It doesn't get any higher than that.

On the other hand, if you just want to discuss the number of spirts dancing on the head of a pin, that's nice too.
 
I think this issue is more problematic depending on what gun you are using. On my 1911, the thumb safety is a big, flat lever that is almost impossible to miss, even with gloves, bloody hands, etc. I rest my strong hand thumb on top of the safety as a part of my normal grip, so I'm all but certain that I will never fail to disengage the safety. The beretta on the other hand, has the safety way up on the slide, where it is hard to access as a part of a "normal" grip, so it would be a lot easier to forget to disengage it. Thats why I got the Elite with the decocker only. I've seen browning hi-powers and CZ-75s with little stubby thumb safeties that could be missed under stress. I would not rely on those for defense until a larger safety could be installed. Like most people here, the trigger is my safety, everything else is piece of mind. LAter.
 
M1911...

Have no fear. The few Colt auto's I own, all have a firing pin block. As to your second point...I think you're right. I should have trained like that. For some reason, it's just always been hard for me to snick that little safety lever off. I miss, (and miss, and miss.) According to your screen name, you must love and collect 1911's. My Colts are smaller autos (could be why I miss the safety so much) and revolvers. But I collect guns also, and I'll admit to having this little voice in the back of my mind that says, "Hey, Dummy! You need a 1911". It's getting louder too. Although the price is a little high, that new/old 1911 that Colt has started making (again) looks interesting. What do you think?

KR
 
Kentucky:

Ah, ok, now I understand where you're coming from. I have a Colt .380 Govt. Model that has a relatively small safety, easy to miss.

Personally, I carry either one of my Kimbers or a Gunsite GSP-2000. All of those have a slightly extended thumb safety. It's longer than the traditional govt. model safety, still relatively narrow, and the corners are rounded off. They're really hard to miss.

Regarding Colt's new/old model, I think it's fine for nostalgia, but not what I would use for self defense (whether CCW or home defense). I'm not saying you couldn't use it for self defense, just that I like the new widgets on Kimbers and other similar guns.

The traditional sights on the new/old Colt are very dinky and all black. No way I would pick them up quickly, especially in the dark. I'll take tritium Novaks any day.

As I said, I prefer a slightly extended thumb safety. The military style one is smaller and easier to miss.

The beavertail grip safety helps eliminate hammer bite and allows a high grip. It also helps align your hand as you reach for the holstered gun. The lanyard loop is something I just don't have any use for either.

A throated barrel and relieved ejection port helps improve reliability.

I'm not saying I couldn't find room in my safe for one of Colt's new/old 1911s. I've got plenty of other relatively useless guns in there :D. But it's not what I'd use for self defense. YMMV.
M1911
 
Be Safe...

My safety is between my ears. If the weapon has one, fine; but I won't depend on it. Once I've the decision has been reached, the trigger gets pulled.

Everything else is secondary to survival.

-LeadPumper
 
Using a S&W 4003TSW with safety off while carrying (hammer down). I use nothing but holsters with thumb break though. I feel I got better retention, and if you practice your draw, a thumb break wont slow you down one bit.
 
SILLY ME

I feel fairly safe with my oh-so-dangerous revolvers, and I wish my 1911 had no other safety but the grip safety.

Now that's cocked and ? ready?

"Finger on trigger to fire".
 
Jason10mm

While the CZ75 safety is different in size and location than a 1911, I think it depends on one's regular practice and dryfire for consistent operation. As others have said earlier, having a consistent manual of arms is most important. I don't own a 1911 yet I have taken training, shoot competitively, practice and dryfire with my 75. I am confident in the gun and my operation of it. Why? Because I don't just practice, I practice perfectly, that is, I have simplified and standardized my gun handling routines. I go through the same routines everytime I handle the gun.

The other day, I decided to practice my presentation with my revolver. I thumbed for the safety without even thinking about it. Going from cocked and locked to DAO will not cause a problem with the safety. If I was going from DAO to condition one carry, I would want 500 or more dryfire presentations and periodic dryfire after that before I would consider carrying cocked and locked.
 
I have Glocks and really respect them, but have just never been at ease with their trigger control system. I prefer a gun with a safety or a safer DA or DAO trigger. With DA autos my own rule right now is: Safety always on... except when you expect trouble... safety always on in case SOMEHOW someone else gets the gun...a kid or a perp, mainly. Plus it's extremely safe to have a round in the chamber, and thus an extra round, with the safety on. Just where I'm at at this time. I am not an expert of any kind.
 
M1911...

You've got Kimbers?
My regular Gun shop has a Kimber "Eclipse" that I've gone back to look at
three times. The last time I was there (to pick up a little wheelgun that I had ordered) the owner told me the Eclipse model was not going to be made after next January. Not that I don't believe him or anything (he's ALWAYS been honest and up front about everything), but can you confirm this? I sure would hate to miss this one.

Thanks,
KR
 
KR: Sorry, but I've got no clue about production of specific models. You might trying calling up Kimber.

Ludwig said:

"Safety always on... except when you expect trouble... "

Ludwig:

Are you saying that you would sometimes carry safety on and sometimes (if you expect trouble) carry safety off? As I said before, I STRONGLY disagree with this. I'm not saying that carrying a DA auto safety off is bad. Not at all, it's quite safe.

CHOOSE ONE CONDITION TO CARRY YOUR GUN AND ALWAYS CARRY THAT WAY! And train that way too! Yes, I am shouting. If you ever need your gun, you will need it RIGHT NOW! You won't remember whether you are carrying safety on or safety off. You will, hopefully, behave just as you have trained. So keep that part simple, because everything else is going to be complicated as heck.

FYI, for DA autos with slide-mounted safeties carried safety-on, Ayoob teaches that you release the safety as you grab the gun in the holster. If you don't like that, then put the safety off as you draw the gun. Either way, part of your presentation of the gun from the holster should involve putting the gun off safe. You should do it the same way every time so that it is a deeply ingrained habit that you no longer have to think about.

M1911
 
Hello M1911 -- Thanks. I know what you mean and I should be clearer. My absolute rule is that I always keep the DA auto safety-on, whether in the holster or out. But if I am alarmed, I take the safety off when I take the gun out. By associating the safety-off condition with the rare mindset of alarm it is easy for me to manage it. I NEVER flick the safety lever off except to practice being alarmed. This seems to be working for me, and I actually like the DA system - now that I am getting good with the DA first shot. But I am only a BEGINNER with the DA auto. The gun is a S&W 3913.
 
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