Safety of pocket carry

W

Wrothgar

Moderator
I know one of the 4 rules is "do not point the muzzle at anything you do not want destroyed".

Well, when I'm pocket carrying and I'm sitting down, its pointing pretty much directly in front it me. Example: If I'm sitting at a table and someone is across from me, it will probably be pointed in their general direction.

I'm not the only one that pocket carries, is everyone else on here okay with that? I'm not really worried about it going off, but still, 4 laws people!
 
The 4 laws have to be applied with some common sense. Just about any holster can present the muzzle to people at some time (bend over to tie a shoe with a muzzle down belt holster, and you just "pointed" at people behind you. Or when carrying in a horizontal hold shoulder holster.

Now, when someone is holding the gun in their hand, then that "law" applies with vigor. The rule of not pointing at someone, to me, means when holding it, not by accidental passage in front of it while holstered and secured.

It's just like people who get ridiculous about the "gun is always loaded".. No, when it is in my hands, action open and I can see clearly, and feel, that the chamber is empty, it is, to me, empty/unloaded and I will proceed accordingly (cleaning or whatever).
 
As long as you pocket carry in a proper holster (trigger guard covered, etc.) then the gun is an inanimate object and isn't going to go off by itself. Gun outside of the holster is another matter entirely.
 
Others have adequately answered your question, so I'll just add my voice to theirs.

My firearms instructor anticipated this question during one class. He went over the four rules, then loaded, cocked and locked a 1911 and set it on a table. Then he had a couple of the guys walk with him in front of the muzzle along the axis of the bore. After the procedure he asked if the rules had been violated.

NO. An inanimate object, left to act alone, is not dangerous. Guns don't accidentally shoot people, people do!

A gun with no hand is considered inanimate.
 
Pocket carry of a D/A gun (or an uncocked S/A gun) without a holster is perfectly safe as long as nothing is EVER put in that pocket with the gun.
 
Ok so I agree with everyone’s assessments here but when I had my kid, I found that I too started getting the creeps due to that very issue! It had never bothered me before but with my kid, well somehow that changed.

I reassured myself via logic and continued to pocket carry. As soon as the kid started hanging off the furniture and communicating with me by grabbing my legs etc. however, it became too much and I stopped pocket carrying.

I know it’s crazy, and that my pistol would have needed a lot more “motivation” to fire … but it spooked me, and I gave it up. If the idea bothers you, well ….
 
There is , no matter how many reasons given here, absolutely no excuse for breaking your so called rule #4 of do not point gun at anything u dont want to destroy. This is how accidents happen and it is a form of being irresponsible with a fire-arm. Too many people die this way.

I will not carry a handgun in my pocket if when i sit down it will point in the general direction of others. i will not holster it if it points in the general direction of others. THAT IS IRRESPONSIBLE. NO ARGUMENT EVER CAN PROVE OTHERWISE.
 
Now, on the other hand, RECOGNIzING this and it troubling you is a 'sign' of responsible fire-arm ownership. But actually acting and preventing this from ever happenning in the future is the defenition of responsibility, not just a sign of it. As the poster above said about his child, he seems to be practicing the utmost responsibility for firearm ownership. They are not toys, they are not simply something cool to have while walking around, they are GUNS. they hurl lead rocks at things, and they destroy what they hit. To have one of those in ur pocket and sit down and then have it pointing at other people is beyond irresponsibility. Officers of the law are paid salaries to protect and serve citizens. No matter how unfair it seems, these rules just do not ever apply to citizens. And most good officers will avoid having this happen.
 
LollerCopter said:
I will not carry a handgun in my pocket if when i sit down it will point in the general direction of others. i will not holster it if it points in the general direction of others. THAT IS IRRESPONSIBLE. NO ARGUMENT EVER CAN PROVE OTHERWISE.
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geez...
So I guess you never carry on the second (or higher) floor of a multi-story building because there might be people walking around on the floor below you?

There is nothing fundamentally unsafe or irresponsible about a weapon carried in a pocket or shoulder-holster, etc. It's only how you behave while drawing, after drawing, or while holstering the weapon that would make it unsafe.
 
It really depends what type of pistol we're talking about. Years ago there was a story in American Handgunner about a guy who was carrying a striker fired pistol in the breast pocket of a leather jacket while riding a motorcycle and it discharged. Fortunately it just blew a hole through his jacket and scared him pretty bad. He said he would never carry a striker fired design again. Anything is possible.
 
Pocket carry of a D/A gun (or an uncocked S/A gun) without a holster is perfectly safe as long as nothing is EVER put in that pocket with the gun.
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Only if the pocket fits/secures the gun so well that it is impossiblefor the gun to fall out, either while seated (falls out into the chair cushions, you don't notice, some kid picks it up after you stand up) or when bending over/standing/running.

This happened last month:

http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9019024

Rogersville Food City employee shot when gun falls from shopper's pocket
By Staff Report

Published December 12th, 2009 | 21 Comments




ROGERSVILLE — An Eidson man was charged with aggravated assault, reckless endangerment and weapons violations after an apparently accidental shooting that wounded a Food City employee Saturday afternoon.

The unidentified employee was shot in the left hip area and taken to Kingsport’s Holston Valley Hospital by Hawkins County Emergency Medical Service.

Witnesses identified 66-year-old Rod Evans Sizemore as the man responsible for the wounding, and he was transported to the Rogersville Police Department for questioning.

Sizemore did not have a permit to carry a weapon that fell out of his coat pocket and discharged while he was shopping, according to Detective Joey Maddox.

“The employee walked by (Sizemore) and he was stricken,” Maddox said of the incident.
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This guy didn't have a CHL and was carrying a pistol that wasn't drop-safe, but it could have happened to somebody that did have one and was pocket carrying without a holster, and if the pistol fell out and landed on something soft then it would be conceivable that it could do so without your notice.

Moral of the story is, pocket carry without a holster may be OK if the pocket has a closure or otherwise positively secures the gun, but be very sure that the gun is indeed positively secured.

The other thing is, a pocket holster does provide additional protection for the trigger against an object that jabs the pocket from the outside, and helps keep the gun oriented butt up.
 
The story bothers me. You can debate whether or not the guy was negligent for dropping a gun out of his pocket but this doesn't seem like aggravated assault to me. Whether he had a CCL or not is irrelevant on the issue of the assault. I was doubly surprised when I found out this was in Tennessee rather than some hard core anti-gun state.
 
I mostly pack a five shooter 38 without a holster. I will often re-orient the gun in my pocket before I sit down which I suppose is mostly to make myself feel better. I carried a Colt 380 for a while the same way and I never carried it cocked and locked. I would not carry a Glock or similar pistol without the trigger covered.
 
I have never had my gun fall out of my pocket!
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As I said, if the gun/pocket fit is such that the gun cannot under any conceivable circumstances fall out, and the trigger is protected or deactivated via a manual safety, you're correct, it's safe. You just have to be aware of those potential problems and consciously prevent them.

You can debate whether or not the guy was negligent for dropping a gun out of his pocket but this doesn't seem like aggravated assault to me. Whether he had a CCL or not is irrelevant on the issue of the assault. I was doubly surprised when I found out this was in Tennessee rather than some hard core anti-gun state.
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He could have paralyzed the victim for life. If that had been a child standing there instead of an adult, the child could have been shot through the brain. This was not a mere "oops, no harm, no foul".

Had the victim died, of course, manslaughter or negligent homicide would have been the likely charge, but since he didn't die, aggravated assault is the charge that best fits the crime, IMO. I don't know what else you'd charge him with.

It would be similar, legally, to if a hunter shot at movement in the woods without making sure of his target, and shot a hiker but didn't kill her/him. I think the typical charge there would be aggravated assault.
 
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Think about how many times you are in the line of sight when you are standing behind someone with a horizontal shoulder-holster.

-Cheers
 
He could have paralyzed the victim for life. If that had been a child standing there instead of an adult, the child could have been shot through the brain. This was not a mere "oops, no harm, no foul".

Had the victim died, of course, manslaughter or negligent homicide would have been the likely charge, but since he didn't die, aggravated assault is the charge that best fits the crime, IMO. I don't know what else you'd charge him with.

It would be similar, legally, to if a hunter shot at movement in the woods without making sure of his target, and shot a hiker but didn't kill her/him. I think the typical charge there would be aggravated assault.
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Simply because someone is injured or even dies does not mean there is a crime. That is what civil lawsuits are about. The situation where a hunter deliberately and intentionally pulls the trigger when unsure of a target is vastly different than a gun falling out of a pocket. How many times do we read stories where no charges have been filed in "accidental" shootings? Note that I put "accidental" in quotations because there is almost always some negligence, but ordinary negligence is normally not enough to charge criminally.
 
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