Aguila Blanca
Staff
But how does NC define "carry," and in what context? Is "transporting" an unloaded firearm in a briefcase or attache case deemed to be "carrying" under the NC law that prohibits carrying in banks?wally626 said:
safety deposit box and firearms.
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Edward429451
Moderator
You seem to be looking at this the wrong way. All laws are (supposedly) based on intent. I carry into my bank regularly and do not need to ask anyone if I am allowed to carry into the bank because I am breaking no laws and my intent is lawful business at the bank, therefor it is unequivocally not any of the banks business if I have a weapon on me.
The way I see it, carrying to the bank is for to the front door, and away from the front door. If I'm in a bank while it gets robbed, I doubt I would engage them and let the bank handle it. I assume they have insurance for those things. The gun is for the walk back to my car, which is probably not the banks responsibility . To ask permission is to un-necessarily muddle up the situation and make waves. If you walk with honor and Lawful intent, there are very few places that you can not carry.
I think storing a weapon in a safe deposit box is a dandy idea. Remember, you pay for having that lock box in the bank. Think about that for a moment and tell me what that is! You are buying secure privacy. You paid for that box, now you have the right to an expectation of privacy surrounding the contents of the box. It is now none of their beeswax.
The way I see it, carrying to the bank is for to the front door, and away from the front door. If I'm in a bank while it gets robbed, I doubt I would engage them and let the bank handle it. I assume they have insurance for those things. The gun is for the walk back to my car, which is probably not the banks responsibility . To ask permission is to un-necessarily muddle up the situation and make waves. If you walk with honor and Lawful intent, there are very few places that you can not carry.
I think storing a weapon in a safe deposit box is a dandy idea. Remember, you pay for having that lock box in the bank. Think about that for a moment and tell me what that is! You are buying secure privacy. You paid for that box, now you have the right to an expectation of privacy surrounding the contents of the box. It is now none of their beeswax.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
In Re: wally626 -- links to NC laws.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.html
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.4.html
Ah, here is is: 14-415.11(c): http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-415.11.html
But please note that the financial institution must post a conspicuous notice of the prohibition or the law does not apply.
And if the prohibition applies, then none of the other things mentioned would be legal. If the financial institution prohibits firearms, then asking permission to put a firearm in a safe deposit box can't overule the law, nor can having a bank employee carry the firearm since the employee probably doesn't have a permit and isn't allowed to even touch the firearm or whatever the firearm is contained in. If they do, they would be breaking the law by carrying without a permit.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.html
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.4.html
Ah, here is is: 14-415.11(c): http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-415.11.html
But please note that the financial institution must post a conspicuous notice of the prohibition or the law does not apply.
And if the prohibition applies, then none of the other things mentioned would be legal. If the financial institution prohibits firearms, then asking permission to put a firearm in a safe deposit box can't overule the law, nor can having a bank employee carry the firearm since the employee probably doesn't have a permit and isn't allowed to even touch the firearm or whatever the firearm is contained in. If they do, they would be breaking the law by carrying without a permit.
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youngunz4life
New member
I see no problem with it, and I like the concept of the box. I am against it if it is against the law or their policy though. You're pushing your luck at that point.
Also, you might have a box for 40yrs without disturbance and someone else might have one for a week before a nosey person looks inside. People are human and curious, that doesn't mean they will steal your stuff.
Also, you might have a box for 40yrs without disturbance and someone else might have one for a week before a nosey person looks inside. People are human and curious, that doesn't mean they will steal your stuff.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"First, you must speak with the manager and tell them what you want to do."
Not going to happen.
The contents of my safety deposit box are private.
What I store in my box is taken in in a brief case. It's none of the bank's business what I'm taking in, none of their business what I'm leaving, and none of their business what I'm picking up.
I'm not going to consult with anyone on what I can and cannot store in my box.
Not going to happen.
The contents of my safety deposit box are private.
What I store in my box is taken in in a brief case. It's none of the bank's business what I'm taking in, none of their business what I'm leaving, and none of their business what I'm picking up.
I'm not going to consult with anyone on what I can and cannot store in my box.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Bank employees don't just "get curious" and start opening boxes. Depending on the bank and type of boxes, there MIGHT be ONE master key that will open the boxes. It is tightly controlled and accessible to ONE person. In some cases, the master key AND your key are BOTH required to open the box and there is only ONE of your key... It's expensive to lose that key as the bank must drill out the lock to open the box.
Beyond the key issue, bank employees don't just hang out in the vault on their lunch hour and the vault is not exactly hidden in the basement corner, it's generally front and center. Anyone in there when they shouldn't be or doing what they shouldn't be will be very obvious to all the other employees.
People are throwing around a ton of missinformation in this thread. Here are a few points which I would like to make. I work at a bank and deal with safe deposit boxes.
When you rent a box you are given 2 keys. They are the only 2 keys in existence that can open that lock. A 2nd master key also needs to present in order to open the box. A bank employee cannot open the box without "your" key. If you loose the keys they drill the box.
It is against Federal law for someone to open your box without your permission unless they have a warrant. If you are not on the lease and signature card you cannot access the box.
You do not have to enter/access the box in order for it to be considered open and active. If the box is paid for that is considered active by most banks. It is not uncommon for a box not to be opened for years. I have a hard time believing that Chase in CA is opening a box which was paid for because no one has signed into it in the last year.
The bank should have no knowledge of what is inside the box unless you disclose it. 99.99% of banks once you open the box provide a private room for you to take things out of and place things into the box. If you are not on the lease you cannot enter this room.
Most banks have a policy against keeping a gun there but I know of no laws which prevent it but this might vary from state to state.
The contents of the box are not insured by the bank. Some homeowners policies will cover safe deposit box contents. If you keep cash or gold etc....in a safe deposit box and the bank blows up your items are not insured.
Eschment of a box varies from state to state but in WV it is 5 years of non-payment. At that point the box is drilled and the contents are sent to unclaimed property.
When you rent a box you are given 2 keys. They are the only 2 keys in existence that can open that lock. A 2nd master key also needs to present in order to open the box. A bank employee cannot open the box without "your" key. If you loose the keys they drill the box.
It is against Federal law for someone to open your box without your permission unless they have a warrant. If you are not on the lease and signature card you cannot access the box.
You do not have to enter/access the box in order for it to be considered open and active. If the box is paid for that is considered active by most banks. It is not uncommon for a box not to be opened for years. I have a hard time believing that Chase in CA is opening a box which was paid for because no one has signed into it in the last year.
The bank should have no knowledge of what is inside the box unless you disclose it. 99.99% of banks once you open the box provide a private room for you to take things out of and place things into the box. If you are not on the lease you cannot enter this room.
Most banks have a policy against keeping a gun there but I know of no laws which prevent it but this might vary from state to state.
The contents of the box are not insured by the bank. Some homeowners policies will cover safe deposit box contents. If you keep cash or gold etc....in a safe deposit box and the bank blows up your items are not insured.
Eschment of a box varies from state to state but in WV it is 5 years of non-payment. At that point the box is drilled and the contents are sent to unclaimed property.
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Mike Irwin
Staff
"You don't need to. Before leasing a safe deposit box, all you need to do is read the lease agreement. You will have your answer."
The lease agreement doesn't matter in the least.
There's no way for the bank to know exactly what I'm putting in my safety deposit box unless I tell them.
There's no reason for me to tell them.
There's no reason (or legal method) for them to open my box without a warrant from a law enforcement agency.
Up until I got my safe a few years ago I had safety deposit boxes at three separate institutions.
Other than the legalese on escheatment and when and how the box would be opened without my consent, I didn't concern myself with anything else in the agreement.
Here's a link to an interesting discussion about this subject from a banker's point of view:
http://www.bankersonline.com/security/gurus_sec060302c.html
Be sure to read the last paragraph.
The lease agreement doesn't matter in the least.
There's no way for the bank to know exactly what I'm putting in my safety deposit box unless I tell them.
There's no reason for me to tell them.
There's no reason (or legal method) for them to open my box without a warrant from a law enforcement agency.
Up until I got my safe a few years ago I had safety deposit boxes at three separate institutions.
Other than the legalese on escheatment and when and how the box would be opened without my consent, I didn't concern myself with anything else in the agreement.
Here's a link to an interesting discussion about this subject from a banker's point of view:
http://www.bankersonline.com/security/gurus_sec060302c.html
Be sure to read the last paragraph.
If the bank clearly states it is prohibited in the lease you will have a hard time getting and insurance company to pay a claim on your loss if one should occur.
Working at a bank I can tell you that we do not really care what is in the box and again 99% of the time have no way of knowning unless you tell us.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Even though we are from different states and our banking exploits are separated by a few years, it seems WVsig's experience very closely matches mine. I suspect that the boxes and procedures are very similar everywhere.
On the matter of direct prohibition in the contract, I consider it to be a matter of honesty/integrity/ethics. If the contract says "No" and you sign it and do it anyway, it may not be a legal issue but it certainly shows a lack of integrity.
Whether or not "you" (any given individual) care about that, is for your own conscience to decide.
On the matter of direct prohibition in the contract, I consider it to be a matter of honesty/integrity/ethics. If the contract says "No" and you sign it and do it anyway, it may not be a legal issue but it certainly shows a lack of integrity.
Whether or not "you" (any given individual) care about that, is for your own conscience to decide.
I am not aware of any law that has a blanket prohibition against firearms in banks. Conceale Carry, open carry, for purposes of committing a crime, loaded - yes, these may all be restricted.
Find me a law that states it is illegal to enter a bank with an inconspicuously cased, unloaded firearm with the intent to place it in a safe deposit box. I doubt one exists. In the absence of any such law AND if the lease doesn't expressly prohibit it, it is completely legal to place an unloaded firearm in the safe deposit box.
Don't expect the lease to itemize everything you can put in the box. It will only mention things that can't be placed in the box.
One other thing - when you die (and you will die) and if the person you designate to be your executor can't find the key, the lock will be drilled and very likely a bank representative will sit with your exector to take an inventory of the safe deposit box.
Find me a law that states it is illegal to enter a bank with an inconspicuously cased, unloaded firearm with the intent to place it in a safe deposit box. I doubt one exists. In the absence of any such law AND if the lease doesn't expressly prohibit it, it is completely legal to place an unloaded firearm in the safe deposit box.
Don't expect the lease to itemize everything you can put in the box. It will only mention things that can't be placed in the box.
One other thing - when you die (and you will die) and if the person you designate to be your executor can't find the key, the lock will be drilled and very likely a bank representative will sit with your exector to take an inventory of the safe deposit box.
Not correct. A bank rep will drill the box and hand over the box to the executor/executrix or adminstrator/administratrix. The bank has no business inventorying the box. The bank would not know what was in there and would not be involved in the process of distributing it.
Also if another party is on the box like your wife, sister, mother, brother etc.... they will simply become the owner of the box. Again rep from the bank will not be involved in any way except to change the paperwork.
Well, I've been there and done that - the bank rep was there during the inventory. Maybe they weren't supposed to be there. Don't know....but the bank rep was there and took her own inventory. As far as I know, there is no law that prohibits a bank officer from viewing the contents of a safe deposit box when it has to be drilled/opened.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
See the third link in post #43Skans said:
NC law defines "carry" as having a firearm "about" the body. That would probably include conveying it in a briefcase, "murse," or Daytimer.
youngunz4life
New member
peetzakilla
the key word in your post was, sometimes.
I know my bank is oldschool. I like that, as I am avoiding many fees I see in the news these days. I wasn't friends with, but I knew a girl(she was one of those speakers yrs after the fact that would speak to youth) that used to steal quesrters out of the bank's quarter rolls as an employee. Can you believe nickels, dimes, and even pennies too? Highly unorthodox, odd, and yet she did it. banks just like any profession(LE comes to mind), has bad apples or people that pass thru the ranks less than honorably+are weeded out.
A lunchbreak might have nothing to do with it(as you had mentioned), like I said earlier...they might not steal it but I wouldn't be surprised if people were nosey sometimes. Not every bank is hightech enough for the masterkey. If and when they want to, someone can get 'hemmed up' because they just make an excuse as to how they happened upon the firearm and use some law such that Aguilar mentioned. Just a thought as to the fact that I am still undecided as to whether it is ok to lock up the firearm because I am not sure if it is legal(leaning towards that it is). I will say that I agreed with mike irwin's post 100%
the key word in your post was, sometimes.
I know my bank is oldschool. I like that, as I am avoiding many fees I see in the news these days. I wasn't friends with, but I knew a girl(she was one of those speakers yrs after the fact that would speak to youth) that used to steal quesrters out of the bank's quarter rolls as an employee. Can you believe nickels, dimes, and even pennies too? Highly unorthodox, odd, and yet she did it. banks just like any profession(LE comes to mind), has bad apples or people that pass thru the ranks less than honorably+are weeded out.
A lunchbreak might have nothing to do with it(as you had mentioned), like I said earlier...they might not steal it but I wouldn't be surprised if people were nosey sometimes. Not every bank is hightech enough for the masterkey. If and when they want to, someone can get 'hemmed up' because they just make an excuse as to how they happened upon the firearm and use some law such that Aguilar mentioned. Just a thought as to the fact that I am still undecided as to whether it is ok to lock up the firearm because I am not sure if it is legal(leaning towards that it is). I will say that I agreed with mike irwin's post 100%
What does any of that have to do with the subject at hand? The reality is that 2 keys are needed to open up a safe deposit box. Yours and the banks master key.
How is a employee supposed to open it without your key without drilling the box? There is nothing high tech about a master key. Your ignorance on the subject is apparent.
youngunz4life
New member
I beg to differ. Are you saying that my safe deposit box can't be opened without me? That is in essence what you stated. It is more like only my key or an exact replica, master key, skeleton key, etc can open it as well. It's not Fort Knox. Also mentioned, not all banks have the same policies...sort of the point of the thread.
You are wrong on the facts. You do not seem to understand. You come in and rent a safe deposit box. In most cases you get 2 keys. They are the only 2 keys in existence for that lock. One of your keys and my master key are both needed to open the box. Each key turns its own tumbler.
If you loose one of the keys then when you surrender the box the bank drills the box because they cannot duplicate the key. I have had a safe deposit box for over 15 years. I work in a bank. I have never seen a safe deposit box that did not require 2 keys.
I work with diebold who installs and maintains the lock. They cannot make a new key. We cannot make a new key. Another company cannot make a new key. If you have the only 2 keys which can open your side of the box and both tumbers need to be turned in order for it to open how can a bank employee open it without your presence? The only way to gain access to the box without your key is to drill it.
There are some boxes which only require only your key but again the bank does not have a copy and cannot duplicate it. The bank rep takes your key and opens the box and hands it to you without ever opening it.
You are wrong on the facts. Introducing fictitious straw-man arguments do not constitute a logical argument. Yes anything is possible but you are arguing from the absurd and treating it like the probable. Again it demonstrates ignorance of the facts. The entire point of a safe deposit box is secure and controlled entry by you and your designated representatives. Stop arguing about something you know nothing about.
Notice the 2 key holes.
This one has only 1 but again these types have no master key.
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Strange that would be the key word... Since I didn't use the word.
See WVsig's posts. He is exactly right. Bank employees getting into your SD box is a virtual impossibility.
There is either one key, and only you have it and no one else, or there is your key that only you have and no one else has it AND a master key AND the box requires BOTH key to open it.
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