Safe primer storage

S

Shadow9mm

New member
Ok trying to understand safe primer storage. Had a rather heated discussion recently and am trying to get a clear understanding of things should be and why they are that way. Also e-mailed CCI to see what they recommend, waiting on a response.

Primers are to be stored cool dry place, I think that is a given.

SAAMI recommends https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Primers.pdf on page 5

Storage cabinets containing only primers are recommended. These cabinets should be ruggedly constructed of lumber at least 1” nominal thickness to delay or minimize the
transmission of heat in the event of fire. SAAMI recommends
against storing primers in sealed or pressurized containers
Click to expand...

My issue is trying to understand what they mean by "sealed container".
Depending on how you look at things a taped up cardboard box could be considered a sealed container. You could also consider a wooden cabinet with doors that stay closed, even with a magnetic latch to be a sealed container.

Later on in page 6 is states
11-5.1 Small arms primers shall be transported or stored in
containers approved by the US Department of Transportation.
Click to expand...

I am having trouble finding the USDOT container types. however I did find a SAAMI link with some information https://saami.org/transportation-and-storage-regulation-information/transport-data-sheets/un-0044-1-4s-primers-by-domestic-road-rail-air-vessel-us-flag-carrier-only/ as near as I can tell they have packaging layers

inner, intermediate, and outer. Outer can be made out of metal among other materials, which to me seems like a sealed container.

My understanding is that the intent is to prevent someone inadvertently baking a bomb but putting it in a container that is pressurized or could become pressurized enough to detonate, rather than deforming and releasing the pressure. Does this sound correct?

By my understanding of things plastic ammo cans should be safe for primer storage, although not the ideal 1 inch thick wooden cabinet. The seal is intended to keep moisture out, however the seal and plastic box would deform under minimal pressure making it unable to detonate.

Is there something I am missing? Building a 1" thick wooden cabinet is not an option for me at this point, and is rather vague in all honesty.
 
Maybe some military surplus wooden box or a wooden crate from the local wine shop? You could probably even add a hinge and lock on the latter. I store my primers in a downstairs closet. I happens to be the coolest and driest place and is under a fire sprinkler head.

What could be worse? Maybe have primed brass in a 30 or 50 cal can. I have a photo of such a can from a fire that had live ammo in it. It looks like swiss cheese.
 
I keep most of mine on shelf in my basement. I added some fire resistant drywall above and below the shelf they sit on. Would that make a difference? I don’t know but I figured it can’t hurt...

A basic 1” thick cabinet would be easy to make. I imagine they keep it vague because the design is unimportant. It doesn’t need to be sturdy. You could make a cube with one side that has a hinge on it.
 
:D anyone that needs a safe place to store their primers feel free to drop them off at my house. I promise to take real good care of them ;)
 
The reason for recommending 1" of wood is to protect the primers from ignition from heat. 1 layer of drywall on the outside of the box will add more heat resistance than additional lumber, and for less $$. More layers of drywall add more time protected from heat.

"Not sealed" means that the door isn't held shut. I built a warehouse for storage of fireworks several years ago. The roof was designed with a weak area in the middle so an explosion could vent up and out. The idea was to prevent the walls and roof structure from collapsing immediately during a fire. The primer storage box needs a similar vent. Something that will stay closed if there is heat on the outside, but won't be held shut to develop pressure as the primers start to ignite. A simple design that uses screws to assemble the box on the sides and bottom. Then set the top on and only put a few nails in it, such that the nails can pull out of the sides during an explosive ignition inside. You can still lock the door to prevent little hands from getting inside, but not create a bomb in the process.
 
Burbank....like jimbob said....not enough

When we were shooting all the time I bought them by the sleeve..5000 in a sleeve.....cowboy shooting...combat shooting...long range stuff...bpcg....yep I was using them.....the Dillons were always pumping

So yes I still have a few...and they reside in 20mm ammo cans

I also keep powder in separate 20mm ammo cans.....they work good...lol...military uses them...why not me...or you

Today.....can you say goldmine...lol.....and nope they ain't for sale

The old saying still holds true....." Buy it cheap and stack it deep "

Ocharry
 
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big al hunter said:
The reason for recommending 1" of wood is to protect the primers from ignition from heat. 1 layer of drywall on the outside of the box will add more heat resistance than additional lumber, and for less $$. More layers of drywall add more time protected from heat.

"Not sealed" means that the door isn't held shut. I built a warehouse for storage of fireworks several years ago. The roof was designed with a weak area in the middle so an explosion could vent up and out. The idea was to prevent the walls and roof structure from collapsing immediately during a fire. The primer storage box needs a similar vent. Something that will stay closed if there is heat on the outside, but won't be held shut to develop pressure as the primers start to ignite. A simple design that uses screws to assemble the box on the sides and bottom. Then set the top on and only put a few nails in it, such that the nails can pull out of the sides during an explosive ignition inside. You can still lock the door to prevent little hands from getting inside, but not create a bomb in the process.
Click to expand...
So in theory, a metal or wood liner in the base of a plastic ammo can, so the pressure would go up and pop the lid? or perhaps holes drilled in the lid covered with tape or taped in saran rap to break and vent in the event of any pressure buildup?
 
So in theory, a metal or wood liner in the base of a plastic ammo can, so the pressure would go up and pop the lid? or perhaps holes drilled in the lid covered with tape or taped in saran rap to break and vent in the event of any pressure buildup?
Click to expand...

That would probably work. The issue I see with using ammo cans is that it is mobile. You are basically building a claymore. A little directional grenade. If the ammo can is always stored upright on a shelf that is fire resistant so firefighters would not be exposed to shrapnel from the lid while fighting the fire, then probably OK. If it is usually left on the floor under your loading bench, not so good.

Do you already have the ammo cans? Material to build a small cabinet out of lumber and drywall is not much more expensive than a metal and plastic can combined.
 
I would store the primers in 30 cal cans if moisture is a concern. If you have a house fire, the can detonating in a storage area is the least of your worries. Ammo cans are designed to store ammo that can be explosive in a fire. I would think they are fine for primers too. If worried about pressure build up. duck tape a drilled hole and stop worrying about fire so much. Moisture would be my biggest concern for long term storage.
 
Ammo cans get their name from what they are designed to transport and move around in a combat zone. The latches that squeeze the rubber seal to make them waterproof are the problem for higher power explosive content. I would never store a can of black powder in one. I don't know that fast pistol powder would be dramatically safer. I would expect rifle powder to swell the container until it leaks gas, but haven't done the experiment.

Explosion-proof solvent storage lockers are metal, so that's not the issue, but rather it is how readily the doors or lids blow open and how long they can hold heat off in a fire. Break-away hinges and latches are often employed. The walls have the same materials a fire-proof safe has in its walls. But they aren't moisture-proof. You could build one from ceramic fiber board attached to the outside of a steel shelving set that serves as the frame.

For moisture-proof storage, you could get some of the 5-gallon paint buckets and lids from Home Depot or Lowe's. I would put what I was worried about inside and stick a humidity monitor in and check it periodically and add or remove desiccant as needed. But really, the best thing is probably have a dehumidifier working in your basement or storage area. Bringing it down to 60% RH greatly reduces rusting rates for steel or other content anyway.

I would not put a desiccant in with anything without first measuring the RH. The Norma manual has a section on powder and moisture content and it turns out powders are stored in the middle RH range and the resulting moisture content is what burn rates are tested at. Norma says taking a powder from 80% RH to near 0% RH causes about a 12% increase in burn rate, so if you don't want to obsolete your load data, you don't want your powder too dry anymore than you want it too wet. I assume primers like the same sort of environment.

The Norma manual also notes that non-military ammunition (not sealed) has its powder gradually equilibrate to the ambient RH over a period of about a year. So I wouldn't store ammo with a desiccant, either, or it will shoot hotter than it was when you loaded it.
 
I got a responce from CCI

Jonathan,

Storage in a plastic container should not be an issue. What they are trying to steer away from is primers being stored in metal cans as it can create a pipe bomp type of effect if something were to happen.

Thanks,

Cody B./Technical Service Rep.
CCI/Speer/Alliant
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(866)286-7436
Click to expand...
 
Unclenick said:
Ammo cans get their name from what they are designed to transport and move around in a combat zone. The latches that squeeze the rubber seal to make them waterproof are the problem for higher power explosive content. I would never store a can of black powder in one. I don't know that fast pistol powder would be dramatically safer. I would expect rifle powder to swell the container until it leaks gas, but haven't done the experiment.

Explosion-proof solvent storage lockers are metal, so that's not the issue, but rather it is how readily the doors or lids blow open and how long they can hold heat off in a fire. Break-away hinges and latches are often employed. The walls have the same materials a fire-proof safe has in its walls. But they aren't moisture-proof. You could build one from ceramic fiber board attached to the outside of a steel shelving set that serves as the frame.

For moisture-proof storage, you could get some of the 5-gallon paint buckets and lids from Home Depot or Lowe's. I would put what I was worried about inside and stick a humidity monitor in and check it periodically and add or remove desiccant as needed. But really, the best thing is probably have a dehumidifier working in your basement or storage area. Bringing it down to 60% RH greatly reduces rusting rates for steel or other content anyway.

I would not put a desiccant in with anything without first measuring the RH. The Norma manual has a section on powder and moisture content and it turns out powders are stored in the middle RH range and the resulting moisture content is what burn rates are tested at. Norma says taking a powder from 80% RH to near 0% RH causes about a 12% increase in burn rate, so if you don't want to obsolete your load data, you don't want your powder too dry anymore than you want it too wet. I assume primers like the same sort of environment.

The Norma manual also notes that non-military ammunition (not sealed) has its powder gradually equilibrate to the ambient RH over a period of about a year. So I wouldn't store ammo with a desiccant, either, or it will shoot hotter than it was when you loaded it.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. I usually screw my powder lids down pretty good, humidity generally stays around 30% mark in the box, so lower but not crazy low. I was trying to use it as a buffer between the powder bottle and the outside. The sealed the powder should be good by itself, and keeping the box low will insulate it from humidity fluctuations in the house.

Are primers effected the same way? I would be more worried about them as they are not closed up in a bottle and more susceptible to absorbing moisture
 
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