Sadly Cimarron SINGLE Shot

post #21 gives you all the info you need to get the ball rolling, some one there will or should care about their image. and to me its not like telling mom, but getting a company to take care of a problem of their making. i,m sure we are not talking about peanuts here, but high dollars. if me, i would be screaming to the high heavens.
 
I might suggest a polite letter to Mike Harvey bringing it to his attention.

Any CEO concerned with success would like to know about a serious shortcoming in the organization.

I suggest a brief, concise cover letter advising him a defective rifle sent to customer service went missing,and communication from customer service is inadequate.

I would attach an organized,uncluttered timeline. Names and dates.

I might also attach a URL to this thread.

Given that Mr Harvey undoubtedly wants the Cimarron Brand to be a trusted one,he can weigh his marketing costs against his cost of one rifle and make you whole just by making the decision to replace a defective rifle.

Its also valuable to a CEO to learn where to focus efforts to improve his organization.

In these times,perhaps a key player or even several may have been affected
by COVID.
These days,especially with an international business dealing in firearms,documentation must be robust enough to not rely on key individuals who can go down,and everything must be trackable.

Mr Harvey likely will be grateful to you.
 
Yeah, let me cover both replies.

White Eagle, thanks for the info, I have that from the website.
HiBC, I have been probably as polite as I ever have been given the building frustration. One of the polite correspondences was indeed to Harvey via email. No response. And the email having not bounced as an invalid address, it's a pretty good guess it was delivered.

It's not the repair time at issue. It's the absolute cessation of all communication. As an aside, I just today saw another thread where the poster has been calling Cimarron and never gets an answer.

Finally, time is running out for my merchant dispute period with the credit card. At this time, I had to file the billing dispute or risk loosing the chance.

Thanks for the information guys

-jb
 
The return receipt with a certified letter may be of interest when you decide to get a lawyer involved to get your property back or possibly in small claims court.


A notarized copy of the actual contents might not be a bad idea either.
 
i have been following along and there is some good advice for sure....but.... i think for me at this point ,if i had a dog in the fight, i would just request my money back from them or have the CC company get it back or a lawyer and they could keep their ju....uhhh rifle

my reason would be that you sent a defective rifle back to them for legit manufacturing problems and seems they have lost it somewhere in the system.. or so they say...they also will not respond to the customer and i would be afraid that IF i ever get the rifle back and IF it is working like it is supposed to that IF down the road something breaks i would have to deal with this crap all over again

so for me to be made whole again with less head ache, my money back would be the answer i would pursue on this.....i understand it is a gun...BUT it is a faulty gun and these people dont seem to care about that or they would be on top of the problem and NOT leave a customer hanging out to dry

i mean really in 4 months if they really wanted to make you happy......dont you think something would have happened by now.....other than crickets???

i had a similar problem with Springfield....well i should not say that....i should say i had a manufacturing defect from Springfield....and they...Springfield... replaced the gun and it went through the custom shop and back in my hands in 9 days..and 2 of those days were shipping

so for me money back is where i would want to end up.....and then move on

ocharry
 
GJeffB said:
Yeah, let me cover both replies.

White Eagle, thanks for the info, I have that from the website.
HiBC, I have been probably as polite as I ever have been given the building frustration. One of the polite correspondences was indeed to Harvey via email. No response. And the email having not bounced as an invalid address, it's a pretty good guess it was delivered.

It's not the repair time at issue. It's the absolute cessation of all communication. As an aside, I just today saw another thread where the poster has been calling Cimarron and never gets an answer.

Finally, time is running out for my merchant dispute period with the credit card. At this time, I had to file the billing dispute or risk loosing the chance.

Thanks for the information guys

-jb
Click to expand...
Sorry for your troubles and hope that you will be made whole soon.

But I'm glad you posted this as I've been in the market for an 1873 rifle.

I was seriously thinking Cimarron as they sell the 1873 with the features I like. But based on your issues I'm scratching them off the list.

Thanks again.
 
Foghorn, I was waiting for a resolution before posting a wrap up, but I have to be fair to all involved. First and foremost Cimarron is in central Texas and apparently got whacked by the snowstorm. They lost power, food, water, telephones, every communication possible. So there's that.
Next. The CSR got in touch with me this past Thursday, the 11th. Apparently (I have no reason to disbelieve) the rifle WAS sent to the Chiappa factory in Ohio in mid-January. The factory just didn't know it (SMH). They sat on it for almost 2 months, then denied to me AND Cimarron that they had it despite shipping and receiving documentation. The factory finally located it and returned it to Cimarron with a description "retightened barrel." That's it. No test fire, no evaluation of how/why the barrel became loose, nada. And finally, the Customer Service Rep at Cimarron advises the wood forearm apparently has 2 new "indentations" that weren't there when sent to the factory. So it's pretty certain the problems aren't with Cimarron, but rather with Chiappa. The original Seller, MidwayUSA.com is intervening, and the Cimarron CSR is trying to see if I get money back, or a new rifle, or ... That decision will probably be the telling factor about Cimarron Firearms Customer service.

I just don't want anybody assuming blame on one place or another until it all plays out. Certainly the purchase decision remains your.

-jb
 
x-post
3/29/2021, dragging this out absurdly. I'll understand if a mod wants it closed.
I'm *really* trying to keep it objective and not vindictive ...
Midway has bailed: no refunds on guns, it's a drop ship, blah blah. I got it, Midway is clearly upfront, "non returnable item." I don't like it, but it's clear.
Since last update March 11 I've inquired 3 times, including to "sales" asking for a reply from the CSR. I have no idea (AGAIN) where the rifle is. No idea what the damage is [an aside: CSR was to email me 9 pictures of the "indentations," never happened]. I've requested exact replacement, substitute replacements (higher priced), or refund. Cimarron has again gone dark. [sarcasm] perhaps another snow storm [/sarcasm].
BBB complaint filed tonight.

-jb, no rifle, no replacement, no money, no Chiappa, never again Cimarron
 
x-posted again

Apparently closing out the thread. This should be the last post on the subject, and I appreciate the patience of all who have followed it dragging out.

My expectations have been, since 12/29/2020, a satisfactory repair of a factory defective rifle. The rifle was “lost" for ~2 months. That has failed. After inadequate “repair” the rifle was returned to Cimarron with ADDITIONAL damage. That was obviously a fail. I’ve asked for a replacement. Ignored. I’ve asked for a refund twice. Ignored. I’ve gone through periods of months without response or explanation. Last update:

March 29 BBB complaint filed and accepted.

March 31 I’m advised by Cimarron that the rifle was *again* returned to the “factory” to repair/replace the fore end damaged created at the first attempt to repair. No reply since.

May 1 response from BBB that they asked for a response from Cimarron and received none. Subsequently the BBB called the business for a response and received none. The BBB is closing the complaint as “unanswered” and will report it on the business for 3 years. The BBB suggests [exact quote] “You may consider legal advice to assist further with your complaint”

Bringing suit across 3 states (my Colorado residence, Cimarron’s business location, Texas, and “the factory” in Ohio) is beyond my scope. After extensive explanations and excuses from Cimarron Customer Service, I felt guilty for being demanding. Now that a formal Better Business Bureau complaint has also been ignored, I feel not so much.

I’m repeatedly asked if I expect to ever receive my property. I must sadly now reply that I honestly don’t know. Regardless of a company’s backlog, I’d expect a factory defect to be run to the front of the queue, perhaps ahead of bluing issues, “doesn’t shoot to point of aim,” and the such. Beyond that, I’d expect a factory return to not be lost for 2 months. And finally, I’d expect a second return for factory damage to be first in line. None such has happened.

I’ve taken up way too much bandwidth. I have never and never will call for avoiding a vendor, so I’ll let all who follow this tale make their own purchase decision. For me … never again.

-jb, YMMV, thanks for following
 
It might be worth a call to your local BATFE office to ask if there's anything they can do. At this point, you paid good money for a firearm that has been taken from you without explanation or compensation. That's sort of like theft. I think there's a legal term for it -- something like "unlawful conversion" or something like that.

The BATFE isn't going to intervene in warranty squabbles, but they should be interested when a firearm is stolen or goes missing.
 
Eagle, I'm late replying. I've read your post over and over to craft a proper response. As best I can:

IANAL. But this is clearly a civil, customer service issue, and I think not to claim any sort of theft/conversion. My purpose is to illuminate the customer service of an importer. I don't think they've stolen my rifle. I expect (?) to get it "someday." The complaint is them accepting it as a defective rifle (Cimarron's description). Sending it to a "factory" who promptly lost it, and Cimarron did not follow up on it promptly. Cimarron receiving it back after locating it after a potentially inadequate repair. Cimarron received it back from "the factory" with *additional/new* damage. And did not raise holy stuff with the repair facility. And only after my 2nd complaint did Cimarron return the additional damage to "the factory", apparently to just be put in the usual repair que, no priority after the cluster flops. Cimarron has failed to communicate with me, time and time again. Cimarron has failed to communicate with the Better Business Bureau complaint inquiries. I doubt Cimarron Firearms has "stolen"/converted my property and I can't in good faith allege that to any authority. I can in good conscience accuse Cimarron Firearms of failure to adequately take care of the rifle, promptly follow up on it, reply to my inquiries, and otherwise provide even a modicum of customer service beyond excuses and passing blame to "the factory." Nothing arising to (AFAIK) criminal conduct. Just some of the worst customer service I've ever experienced. Requests for expedited service - ignored; requests for replacement - ignored; requests (2) for refund - ignored. Everything is the fault of a 3rd party ("factory" in Ohio). I am not a factory's customer. I am Cimarron's customer.

The tale told is not to advocate for a avoidance of Cimarron Firearms. It's informational about my experience. Am I a 1 in a million customer issue? Strains credulity to think so. Followers of this cluster flock may make their own purchase decisions.

-jb, not me not ever again
 
Bet those factory "repair" shops are contracted out by Chiappa and are small operations - hence the lack of response or their very slow ability to repair things.
 
Although there may be incompetence involved (there often is), also consider that firearms parts availability in general is difficult right now. Italy (where the Chiappa/Armisport factory is) was hit particularly hard by COVID, so parts for products made there are very hard to get at present. Chiappa in Ohio is just an import warehouse, not a factory. When they need parts that are not in stock, they call the factory in Italy and it gets put on a boat and shipped to the USA, where the ship can sit off-shore for months waiting to be unloaded by the terminal Longshoremen (check the news, ships are waiting months to be unloaded). Last year a customer of mine brought in a Pedersoli Sharps barrel to be installed that he waited almost a year to get (we could have made him one for a lot less time and money). I recently went through this same situation waiting for parts from Asia. So keep up the phone calls and emails and don't despair.
 
Scorch, I've seen some very good advice from you. You comment serves as just 1 more inconsistency in Cimarron's story. Specifically, the very first instruction was to ship the rifle to "our [Cimarron's] gunsmith" for an initial evaluation. That gunsmith is apparently a 1 man contractor located in Brian TX (Cimarron is in Fredricksburg TX). I was informed by Cimarron that their gunsmith immediately determined the rifle to be defective and shipped to "the factory" for repair. No discussion of an import station for parts replacement. Cimarron also described that the *factory* in Ohio provided a repair report that they spent .40 hr on repairs consisting of "retightened barrel." So somewhere along the line Cimarron has upgraded the Ohio facility to a "factory." Since Cimarron originally had the rifle go to their (presumably contractor) gunsmith (Jackrabbit rifles), I can't imagine shipping it to/from Ohio so some yahoo could put a wrench on the barrel for 24 minutes. But then, I couldn't imagine this whole scenario.

WADR, I do appreciate the comment however. I add it to the expanding list of discrepancies I've received. I am continuing the contact attempts, again with no response.

-jb, walking the fine line between patience and run around
 
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