sabot rounds
- Thread starter Freeman25
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Depleted uranium rounds are basically chunks of uranium from which as much of the U-235 has been processed out as possible.
Interesting aspect of amorphous crystalline metals: they're harder and more brittle than normal, and this means that on impact, they are self-sharpening. Impact stresses cause outer layers to just kind of flake off, progressively sharpening the projectile until it either goes through or shatters.
Interesting aspect of amorphous crystalline metals: they're harder and more brittle than normal, and this means that on impact, they are self-sharpening. Impact stresses cause outer layers to just kind of flake off, progressively sharpening the projectile until it either goes through or shatters.
novus collectus
Moderator
Are you saying the depleted Uranium is an amorphous metal or the Tungsten?
Either way, interesting.
Either way, interesting.
Depleted uranium is just uranium with low uranium-235 content. (235 is the main fissionable material in reactors and nuclear weapons.)
Many (most?) metals can be formed with an amorphous crystal structure; uranium is one of them. Because of its unique mechanical properties, an amorphous structure makes for better terminal effects on hard targets.
As for tungsten penetrators, they're just tungsten spikes; AFAIK, nothing fancy is done with them, aside from maybe alloying for enhanced hardness.
Many (most?) metals can be formed with an amorphous crystal structure; uranium is one of them. Because of its unique mechanical properties, an amorphous structure makes for better terminal effects on hard targets.
As for tungsten penetrators, they're just tungsten spikes; AFAIK, nothing fancy is done with them, aside from maybe alloying for enhanced hardness.
novus collectus
Moderator
If that is true, then would you have it in your home and reload with it using the exact same safety measures as you would with lead?
sabot and AP
Hardened penetrators such as tungsten or DU and sabot rounds are 2 different things. However, they are commonly used together. A good example of this is the .50 SLAP (saboted light armor penetrator) for the M2. This is a .30 cal tungsten penetrator in a .50 cal plastic sabot. You get 2 benefits from the tungsten penetrator - reduced mass (equals higher velocity-around 4000 fps for the SLAP vs. 2900 fps for a .50 BMG), and harder bullet that penetrates rather than deforms. This gives you a round effective against 3/4" armor out to around 5000 feet.
Incidentally, in the 80s the Marines looked at the same concept for a 7.62 rounds. Didn't work out so well, the sabot would often break up and the penetrator would go through the side of the barrel. Oops.
Hardened penetrators such as tungsten or DU and sabot rounds are 2 different things. However, they are commonly used together. A good example of this is the .50 SLAP (saboted light armor penetrator) for the M2. This is a .30 cal tungsten penetrator in a .50 cal plastic sabot. You get 2 benefits from the tungsten penetrator - reduced mass (equals higher velocity-around 4000 fps for the SLAP vs. 2900 fps for a .50 BMG), and harder bullet that penetrates rather than deforms. This gives you a round effective against 3/4" armor out to around 5000 feet.
Incidentally, in the 80s the Marines looked at the same concept for a 7.62 rounds. Didn't work out so well, the sabot would often break up and the penetrator would go through the side of the barrel. Oops.
^^^
Well, he was asking about the sabot rounds used in tank cannons for anti-tank purposes: and specifically asked about DU.
Note that with a density of about 19g/cm^3, DU isn't exactly a smart choice for typical hand weapons; you'd get a penetrating core that would go straight through a bunch of stuff, but wouldn't actually do very much damage.
Tungsten's actually slightly more dense, at 19.3g/cm^3, so it would have the same problem. It would be a lot cheaper and a lot less illegal, though.
In either case, even if you got the raw materials, good luck actually making bullets.
Uranium and tungsten are both very hard to work.
Note: I'm saying this stuff from the standpoint of an engineering student; media hype becomes a lot less scary when you know more about the chemistry and mechanics than the f***tard reporters.
Well, he was asking about the sabot rounds used in tank cannons for anti-tank purposes: and specifically asked about DU.
Yeah, pretty much. Only problems are that I would have to be a bit more careful in handling it to avoid making dust (interesting thing about tungsten: on its own, it's not a problem, but when introduced to a tissue culture with certain other metals—like the ones it's usually in an alloy with—it's mad carcinogenic), and it's pretty much illegal for random people to own uranium. Stuff's worse than drugs WRT getting The Law to swoop down upon your ass.
Note that with a density of about 19g/cm^3, DU isn't exactly a smart choice for typical hand weapons; you'd get a penetrating core that would go straight through a bunch of stuff, but wouldn't actually do very much damage.
Tungsten's actually slightly more dense, at 19.3g/cm^3, so it would have the same problem. It would be a lot cheaper and a lot less illegal, though.
In either case, even if you got the raw materials, good luck actually making bullets.
Uranium and tungsten are both very hard to work.Note: I'm saying this stuff from the standpoint of an engineering student; media hype becomes a lot less scary when you know more about the chemistry and mechanics than the f***tard reporters.
in the beginnig of the thread. Since Iknow DU I was asking about rifle sabot rounds.
I know that there are a Very few rifles that uses DU(or these are not comercial)or there aren't any, but those are 20mm anti-vechicle weapons.
I if they say a 7.62 sabot round(often tungsten) is the bullet really 7.62 or smaller? (Like Mike40-11 said)
I know that there are a Very few rifles that uses DU(or these are not comercial)or there aren't any, but those are 20mm anti-vechicle weapons.
I if they say a 7.62 sabot round(often tungsten) is the bullet really 7.62 or smaller? (Like Mike40-11 said)
Third_Rail
New member
You're quite incorrect, I have right near me a few different samples of uranium ore from various mines in the USA and abroad.
Go to any gem & mineral show, you can pick up uranium ore for a reasonable sum.
DU is also pyrophoric. The energy at impact creates enough heat to cause the metal to burn. Any material that penetrates appears as a shower of flaming metal.
The radioactivity is not a hazard (alpha emitter) as long as it stays outside the body. Alphas cannot even penetrate skin. If the material is inside the body the alpha can now do damage. This is the reason fro the risk in inhaling the dust.
DU is a toxic (chemically) heavy metal. Just like lead, it can cause problems by screwing around with any number of metabolic paths and nerve function.
I happen to have a DU penetrator sitting on my desk. Not a hazard.
The radioactivity is not a hazard (alpha emitter) as long as it stays outside the body. Alphas cannot even penetrate skin. If the material is inside the body the alpha can now do damage. This is the reason fro the risk in inhaling the dust.
DU is a toxic (chemically) heavy metal. Just like lead, it can cause problems by screwing around with any number of metabolic paths and nerve function.
I happen to have a DU penetrator sitting on my desk. Not a hazard.
Any sabot round will be smaller than the bore of the weapon. That's the whole rationale for sabots. Smaller bullet, bigger gun, higher speed.
Remington used to make a cartridge called the Accelerator, discontinued in he late 90s, that was a 55 gr. 22 cal bullet in a 30 cal sabot. I believe they made it in 30-30, .308 and 30-06. Don't know if any one else is making production rifle sabot rounds now, but you can find the sabots for sale for handloading.
Currently lots of manufacturers make 12 ga sabot shotgun slugs. This are generally 1 oz. .50 cal slugs in a plastic sabot to fit the .729" 12 ga bore.
They are also common in muzzleloading. .45 cal bullets in a .50 cal plastic sabot.
Remington used to make a cartridge called the Accelerator, discontinued in he late 90s, that was a 55 gr. 22 cal bullet in a 30 cal sabot. I believe they made it in 30-30, .308 and 30-06. Don't know if any one else is making production rifle sabot rounds now, but you can find the sabots for sale for handloading.
Currently lots of manufacturers make 12 ga sabot shotgun slugs. This are generally 1 oz. .50 cal slugs in a plastic sabot to fit the .729" 12 ga bore.
They are also common in muzzleloading. .45 cal bullets in a .50 cal plastic sabot.
novus collectus
Moderator
There are also saboted rounds for pistols out there as well.
http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/DU-Radiological-Toxicity-WHO5nov01.htm
...uranium is a dense and hard metal that is pyrophoric. It is these properties that give the effectiveness at penetrating armour and destroying tanks and their occupants. On burning, uranium produces a dense smoke, which, in a confined space, is rapidly suffocating.
...uranium is a dense and hard metal that is pyrophoric. It is these properties that give the effectiveness at penetrating armour and destroying tanks and their occupants. On burning, uranium produces a dense smoke, which, in a confined space, is rapidly suffocating.