SA handgun safety features.

[Walt Sherrill]

You and Walt are entitled to your opinions, but there are a great many 1911 cognoscenti who adamantly disagree with you. This is one of those things that are not a question of fact, it's a question of opinion.

I have done it (lowered a hammer with a live round chambered), but I don't make a practice of it and I would prefer to avoid doing so if at all possible.

Just opinion? Agreed -- as are your comments above, citing the views of 1911 cognoscenti. As presented your words seem to demand the same attention and regard as mine, and others addressing this topic, but no more.

We both recognize a 1911 user will almost NEVER have need to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber -- s/he will either keep the hammer cocked & locked, or remove the mag and clear the chamber. But that is not true of some some DA/SA semi-autos that aren't equipped with decockers, particularly if they participate in gun games like USPSA or IDPA. Or just use a weapon around their property. (Such weapons do exist, as do any number of both DA/SA and SA revolvers.)

In my earlier response, I said there there were ways of lowering the hammer (with the off hand) to keep the hammer from hitting the firing pin. I said that doing so made a potentially dangerous process SAFER. The person I was responding to had earlier made the point that such techniques -- which I suspect he did not understand -- made the process less safe!. He didn't explain how and why that such practices could be less safe than doing it some other way.

I said that if done correctly (with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction), nobody will be at risk of harm. That, to my thinking. is a SAFE practice. Even if a round is negligently discharged, nobody is in danger. (It might prove to be a noisy exercise, and at least one person MIGHT be embarrassed by the ND -- but noise and embarrassment do not necessarily = DANGER!)

Almost anything you do with a handgun with a chambered round is potentially unsafe, and some things are clearly more so...

You've been shooting for a long time... how many NDs have YOU observed that were (in your opinion) a by-product of lowering the hammer of a non-SA, non-decocker-equipped semi-auto or revolver?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Just opinion? Agreed -- as are your comments above, citing the views of 1911 cognoscenti.

Well ... yes, and no.

I agree that each person who expresses an opinion on this subject is expressing an opinion. However, it is fact -- not opinion -- that many 1911 cognoscenti are of the opinion that lowering the hammer over a chambered round is a dangerous practice. All you you need to do to verify that is spend some time perusing discussions on The 1911 Formum and the M1911.org forum.

 

[GeneS]

I hope those cognoscenti don't ever do any shooting with a revolver or a lever action rifle. Might shoot a toe off.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

However, it is fact -- not opinion -- that many 1911 cognoscenti are of the opinion that lowering the hammer over a chambered round is a dangerous practice.

All you've said above, is that it's a fact that the cognoscenti have opinions; you haven't told us why those opinions might be valid or even worth our attention. (Cognoscenti, by definition, have superior knowledge, but even superior knowledge isn't perfect knowledge.) You have also expressed your own unease with decocking a 1911, so you don't participate in this discussion without a bias of your own.

Many firearms instructors have opinions, too, and at least some of them believe that manually decocking a hangun is an important and basic gun handling skill that can be done safely using good technique that includes proper attention to safety.

 

[44 AMP]

I think that, while the idea of lowering the hammer on a live round does carry a small element of risk, the idea of it being dangerous is a modern affectation.

Look at all the 19th century firearms designs that REQUIRE you to lower the hammer on a chambered round! Colt SA revolvers and Winchester & Marlin leverguns come to mind.

Yes, the gun could fire, if you slipped the hammer, but then, that's what the half cock (or 1/4 cock notch on some guns) was there for. TO catch the hammer if it slipped. And a hammer "slipped" from below the half cock notch was not considered capable of firing the gun. (generally, I'm sure there may have been freak occurrences but have no references)

Win & Marlin lever guns got along quite well for over a century before our modern era thinking demanded there be a separate safety.

Sure, NO TRAINER will recommend doing something with an element of risk today, no matter how slight. Quite simply because in today's society, some fumble fingered moron with no personal sense of responsibility who had an accident would claim it was the trainer's FAULT, for teaching them to do that.

Personally, I'm fine with the idea of accepting the SMALL risk of lowering the hammer, I've been doing it on literally hundreds of gun over 45+ years of shooting, and never had a single slip. Maybe I know what I'm doing. Maybe I'm just lucky. Either way I will continue my standard practices, despite a chorus of experts saying I shouldn't.

BUT, by the same token, I will not recommend that YOU do it, because I don't know, and don't trust YOU. Or your lawyer...

FWIW, I once had a friend bet me that I could not lower the hammer on a stock GI 1911A1, one handed. He lost.

 

[carguychris]

To return to the questions posed in post #1, the parts diagram of an Astra A70 found HERE indicates that the gun has a trigger-actuated firing pin block (Part No 70-42). It appears to be trapped under the rear sight and is accessed by drifting the sight to one side, similar to the design used on a 2nd- or 3rd-gen metal-frame S&W.

FWIW I own and carry one of those DA/SA pistols that lacks a decocker and can be operated essentially like a single-action (Beretta 84BB), and I have no great problem with decocking it over a live round; I do this frequently because I prefer to carry DA/off-safe.

 

[michael t]

I have some where in my collection . One of those 1911 only magazines that come out every so often. This one was 1984 by Peterson company One article in the mag was lower your hammer for Carry, Night stand of drawer . It has not always been world of locked and cocked . In military I carried my 1911 loaded hammer down . When I grew up those that had a 1911 I knew carried Hammer down. Wasn't till I read God of 1911's Cooper. I found out every one. I known been doing it wrong .

I agree the bobbed hammers we have to day are not best for hammer down . I did drawn a stock older Commander. With No silly beaver tail and cocked it and fired in SD . Once in my life. It was natural to me. I am L/handed and majority of my 1911 are single safety. Never found a ambi safety that would work very long .

I have carried a 1911 since 1967 in military career as MP and civilian. I still prefer to cock the hammer over condition 1
I think the 1911 of today has been ruined with the bobbed hammers beaver tails and all the other game ad on the company's have convinced people needed,
All I 1911 needs is good sights and good 4lb or so trigger. But then I am old and set in my ways .