S&w top break

C

carl2002

Inactive
I have a S&W top break with a 6 in barrel. The Serial number 4337, it is located on the bottom of the handle. The patent numbers are on top of the barrel and a last patent date of may11 & 25 1880. It is a Double Action. Can anyone tell me anything about this pistol. I'm not sure what the caliber is. Thanks, Carl
 
We need a pic. It could be a 38 S&W, but there were 38-40 top breaks made as well. Judging by the barrel marking/patent info, it must have a a hammer, since the Safety Hammerless debuted in 1885. The New Departure had new patent dates.
 
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Without more information such as the caliber, it's really difficult to identify your revolver. The most common calibers for S&W top-breaks are .32 S&W, .38 S&W, and .44 Russian. Also, if you could post pictures of the gun it would be helpful in idenitfying it.
 
We will need a better description and the caliber since S&W kept calibers in their own serial number series and used the same patent date on different models; some good clear pictures would be even better.

Jim
 
I was pretty sure that SN was out of range for a 38-40, and I was right. If its a S&W, which I think it is, its either a 38 Double Action 2nd model, or possibly a 38 perfected. The perfected differs by having a side cylinder release while still being a top break. Some perfected models however do not have the side cylinder release. I am not 100% sure if the perfected would have had the same patent info. I would guess not, since they had the updated cylinder release.

Here is a perfected

9751782_1.jpg


Here is a 38 DA 2nd model

smith-wesson-38-da-pocket-original-box%20(2).jpg
 
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Of course, it could be a 44 DA as well, given the info.

I just checked, and given the patent info, top break, and DA status, it is either a 32 DA, a 38 DA, or a 44 DA. It cannot be a New Departure, since they had different patent info.
 
It must be a 44 Russian because a 45 round will almost fit. I think the gun is a DA Frontier Schofield going by other photos I have seen on the net. I will try to post a photo in the AM Wed. The pistol is very tight and the barrel looks good.
 
If it's a .44 Russian, a .44 Special or .44 Magnum cartidge should fit with the exception of being too long to fully chamber. The .44 Russian is the shorter parent cartridge of both .44 Spl and .44 Mag.
 
It could be 44 Russian or 44-40, given the SN. I think a 44-40 would be marked on the side of barrel. The Frontier model was in 44-40 whereas the 44 DA was in 44 Russian.
 
It could also be another make and "S&W" is the cartridge. Why continue the guesswork? Carl is going to have to provide pictures.

Jim
 
"I think the gun is a DA Frontier Schofield..."

There is NO such gun.

The Schofield was a military variation of the single action Number 3, particularly a different style top latch.

When the military quit purchasing No. 3s, S&W dropped that latch from production so that they didn't have to keep paying royalties to Col. Schofield.

That latch was never used on any other top break Smith & Wesson, single or double action.
 
It could also be another make and "S&W" is the cartridge. Why continue the guesswork? Carl is going to have to provide pictures.
Click to expand...

Yea I agree. I couldn't help but guess, since it was a S&W and I narrowed it down pretty good. It could be a European copy which copied the patent dates and placed them on the rib. Often these copies are much more crude in appearance.

As for the shoulder in the chamber, sometimes its hard to see. The giveaway for me is comparing the front face cylinder cal to the breech end of the cylinder cal. For a 44-40, the "breach end" aka rear face should have wider chambers than the front would, due to the case dimensions of the 44-40.
 
As I figured, the gun does not have the "44 Winchester" marking on the left side of barrel. Top breaks in 38 are more common, but out of 32, 38 and 44, the most common 6in would probably be a 44. For the smaller cals, 3.25 in and 4in barrels were more common. Since the cylinders on the 44 DAs were elongated for the 44-40 (which came out later than the 44 Russian), just measure the cylinder. If it is 1 9/16 in long, then its a 44-40, and if its a 1 7/16 in cylinder, then its a 44 Russian. The serial number you gave was within both models, with the 44-40 being 1-15k or so and the 44 DA Russian being 1 to approx 53k.

There isn't any finish left, and the grips are not originals. If the gun works, it certainly has shooter / CAS value. Its of course worth more as a 44-40. The 6in barrel in these was common.
 
That is the .44 DA First Model. The normal and most common caliber is .44 Russian, though it was also made in .44-40 and .38-40. IIRC, those in .44 Russian had no caliber marking as that was the normal caliber. Those in .44-40 and .38-40 had cylinders 1 9/16" long; the .44 Russian cylinder was 1 7/16" long.

Some 54,000 were made from 1881 to c. 1898, but they were slow sellers and some were shipped as late as 1913. S&W has stated that all the frames were made prior to 1 Jan 1899, so they are all antiques, regardless of when shipped.

At least two "celebrities", Belle Starr and John Wesley Hardin, reportedly carried that model.

Yours would probably have been made in 1881 or 1882 in the early production.

Jim
 
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