S&W,Ruger "no safety" sales
- Thread starter Skeets
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Uncle Malice
New member
I don't think so. It's much easier to find the safety models of the Shield in stock than the no safety models.
I'm not saying they need one so please don't attack me with arrows and sticks/
But I have always wondered what the increase in sales would be for Glock if they offered a manual safety.
I have many friends that have shot my 26 that really like the gun but just don't feel comfortable carrying one without a safety.
But I have always wondered what the increase in sales would be for Glock if they offered a manual safety.
I have many friends that have shot my 26 that really like the gun but just don't feel comfortable carrying one without a safety.
My personal requirements are either a visible hammer or a safety lever (aka safety lock).
Without either of these I don't seriously consider the gun. I have tried glocks, and found other things I didn't like about them, besides not having a hammer or safety lever. Not for me, thanks.
Without either of these I don't seriously consider the gun. I have tried glocks, and found other things I didn't like about them, besides not having a hammer or safety lever. Not for me, thanks.
I will NOT get into a discussion (read flaming argument) about the pro's and con's of a manual safety lever. I have read Barrett's book about Glock and will just provide Glock's answer to KYjim's question.
Gaston Glock, not know all that much about firearms went around asking what everybody wanted in a handgun and many, many times was told revolvers were good because you could just grab one and pull the trigger but they didn't hold very many rounds and were slow to reload. Semi-auto's held lots of rounds and were fast to reload but the manual of arms was complicated...you couldn't just pull 'em aim 'em and fire 'em like a revolver.
Many times people forgot to disengage the safety.
Glock wanted to give folk a simple manual of arms semi-auto and he did.
That said, for some non-USA markets Glock has provided a manual safety. Plus you can add the Cominolli safety if you really want.
One of my favorite police fiction authors, John Sandford , (aka John Camp) personally owns a Glock with the safety lever modification and mentioned a bad guy taking the safety off his Glock when he was getting ready to shoot someone and there were nasty comments in Amazon about his 'mistake'. I kind of tend to agree, if an author has a goofy gun like a Glock with a manual safety then they should make note of it.
Gaston Glock, not know all that much about firearms went around asking what everybody wanted in a handgun and many, many times was told revolvers were good because you could just grab one and pull the trigger but they didn't hold very many rounds and were slow to reload. Semi-auto's held lots of rounds and were fast to reload but the manual of arms was complicated...you couldn't just pull 'em aim 'em and fire 'em like a revolver.
Many times people forgot to disengage the safety.
Glock wanted to give folk a simple manual of arms semi-auto and he did.
That said, for some non-USA markets Glock has provided a manual safety. Plus you can add the Cominolli safety if you really want.
One of my favorite police fiction authors, John Sandford , (aka John Camp) personally owns a Glock with the safety lever modification and mentioned a bad guy taking the safety off his Glock when he was getting ready to shoot someone and there were nasty comments in Amazon about his 'mistake'. I kind of tend to agree, if an author has a goofy gun like a Glock with a manual safety then they should make note of it.
I won't make any pithy responses to this. It is what it is and I can somewhat understand.
I carry 1911s quite a bit so I'm one of those who instinctively swipes down at the safety even when there isn't one. I gave up carrying a SW 3913 years ago because the safety was bass ackwards -- up for fire.
The whole safety/no-safety thing boils down to this for me. My primary handguns currently are a G19 and Ruger LCR which have basically the same "manual of arms". I have no intention of getting into 1911s specifically for this reason. I realize I'm limiting myself somewhat but I think it is better to pick one system and stick with it. Just my $0.02.
Cheapshooter
New member
Because if it happens to get engaged, and you expect it not being so when being attacked, you could be in for the shock of your not too much longer to be life!
sigarms228
New member
I never thought I would own a DA/SA pistol with a safety but have owned an HK P30LS and HK45 for a couple years now.
I don't use the safety on either, other than occasionally at the range, and it has never been a problem for me. On these particular pistols it would take a LOT of effort to accidentally put the safety on. Not sure about other pistols but these two work for me after thousands of rounds fired.
If I was worried about a gun without a manual safety or was selling one to someone else that was worried about it, I would propose a solution. Don't load a round in the chamber as your safety. It won't fire and racking the slide can be done just about as easily as taking the safety off.
Sometimes people forget to step on the brake when they should, also.
If you want to use the modern safety culture's technobabble, it is called ...
Operator Error.
Root cause analysis would classify the error as a TRAINING ISSUE.
NOT a design flaw.
and, be sure to balance all the "somebody got killed because the safety was on" with the times "somebody lived, because the safety was on.
There are more than a few, verified, documented cases where a bad guy got a good guy's gun and tried to shoot him with it, but failed, because the safety was on.
I/m not going to beat that particular horse any more, now, we've done it before, and probably will again. My point in this case is, it doesn't matter if your pistol is mechanically safe. (aka drop safe, or whatever you call it), or how testing has proven it to be fully the equal in safety to one with a safety lever...
I DON"T CARE!
If I'm buying a pistol, and one of the possible uses for said pistol could be to defend what I hold most dear, then it better have the features I want (no matter what they are) or I'm not spending my money on it.
And I know I'm not the only person who feels this way.
I don't need ALL my guns to have a manual safety, but it is a must for my personal EDC, exclude revolvers. I mean, really, tell me a good reason why not? my manual safeties don't fail, except in one case in which the gun got returned. so I would rather have than have not, especially if it's going to be in my pocket or pants all day. although we have a good percentage of people on THIS forum that will disagree with the practice of manual safeties, I think MOST of Americans would prefer one.
I think the ideal answer to the debate is for manufacturers to offer most of their models with the option of either or. especially glock.
I have never had a safety become "engaged" accidentally while shooting. dozens of thousands of rounds and it has never happened.....sorry, that doesn't fly with me. I want a safety, so I buy EDC's with safety's, period.
my preference in a perfect world is a CZ in half-cock with safety on, no matter how ridiculous that sounds, that's the most most comforting to me. I can pull a gun from holster or night stand and flip the safety off all in one fine movement so I doesn't slow me down any. if your worried about inadvertent safety "engagement"....practice your draw while turning safety off, every time, whether it's on or not
NOW....after saying all that, I do believe a safety can cause stupidity in new or undisciplined shooters. that's why I recommend new shooters get a revolver and learn the basics of handling a gun before moving to a hair trigger pistol. when I got my first rifle, hipoint carbine, I thought the safety was on, hit that trigger and shot out my front window........so safeties do nothing to help stupidity. it sure didn't teach me the basic rule of never touching the trigger until your ready to shoot. so I understand both sides of the argument, I just know what I prefer. and I firmly believe the free-market makes these options available and for good reasons that make sense to different people. Loaded chamber indicator......I thought it's ridiculous, or did anyways. now that I have one, its kind of comforting to slide my finger over the slide while I am holstered just for the extra reassurance. I would never buy a gun because it does or doesn't have one, but I now understand why come people would.
I think the ideal answer to the debate is for manufacturers to offer most of their models with the option of either or. especially glock.
I have never had a safety become "engaged" accidentally while shooting. dozens of thousands of rounds and it has never happened.....sorry, that doesn't fly with me. I want a safety, so I buy EDC's with safety's, period.
my preference in a perfect world is a CZ in half-cock with safety on, no matter how ridiculous that sounds, that's the most most comforting to me. I can pull a gun from holster or night stand and flip the safety off all in one fine movement so I doesn't slow me down any. if your worried about inadvertent safety "engagement"....practice your draw while turning safety off, every time, whether it's on or not
NOW....after saying all that, I do believe a safety can cause stupidity in new or undisciplined shooters. that's why I recommend new shooters get a revolver and learn the basics of handling a gun before moving to a hair trigger pistol. when I got my first rifle, hipoint carbine, I thought the safety was on, hit that trigger and shot out my front window........so safeties do nothing to help stupidity. it sure didn't teach me the basic rule of never touching the trigger until your ready to shoot. so I understand both sides of the argument, I just know what I prefer. and I firmly believe the free-market makes these options available and for good reasons that make sense to different people. Loaded chamber indicator......I thought it's ridiculous, or did anyways. now that I have one, its kind of comforting to slide my finger over the slide while I am holstered just for the extra reassurance. I would never buy a gun because it does or doesn't have one, but I now understand why come people would.
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In my view, you just "answered your own question". I want my pistols and revolvers to have the same manual of arms. That's my reason, period.
And that's your choice. I don't have a problem with that and don't feel a need to try to convince you your choice is wrong. There are absolutes in this world, but this isn't one of them.
I am just saying that I don't care if my "nightstand" gun has a safety or not. either way I am still going to slide my finger down the left side like I do with every other draw, so it doesn't matter to me if it's there or not....but that's just me.......lovin the free-market
OK, here's your answer, to appease or appeal, for both camps.
Have one of the Glock style pistol makers bring out a model with a safety lever in the approximate place and operation of a 1911 safety. UP, gun does not fire if trigger is pulled. Down/level is OFF, gun fires if trigger is pulled.
KEEP the little trigger activation switch thingy...make the safety lever removable, and a matching plug to put in place if you do.
Owner gets to choose either style, to suit their desires. One gun model does either, not one with and without.
now, if I can figure this out, why can't the gun makers?
I've been in a few (fortunately very few) high stress situations with a revolver and with an auto pistol, and FOR ME, I never mistook one for the other. Meaning, I didn't fumble trying to take the safety off a revolver, or anything like that. Didn't do an "automatic swipe" without conscious thought, when I had a revolver. DID do it without thought when I had a semi auto..
I think maybe there is enough difference, in my mind, between the two that, something below conscious level "knows" which skill set to use for what I'm carrying.
I also think that when the guns are very similar overall, that "muscle memory" skillset for one can be exactly the wrong thing for another.
Example: Friend drops by says he saw a deer up the canyon, need to borrow rifle. All he has with him is shotgun and birdshot (is also bird season). For some reason, I get him a rifle and go with him, carrying his Browning shotgun. Not the (VERY SIMILAR) Winchester I use. Pheasant flushes. Track bird, punch safety off, pull trigger. Nothing. Blink. repeat. same. and again, as I watch him sail out of sight..Pushing off the safety at the front of the triggerguard (Winchester) only gets you a sore finger when you are holding a Browning with the safety at the back of the triggerguard!
anyone else like that out there, or am I just gifted that way??
Have one of the Glock style pistol makers bring out a model with a safety lever in the approximate place and operation of a 1911 safety. UP, gun does not fire if trigger is pulled. Down/level is OFF, gun fires if trigger is pulled.
KEEP the little trigger activation switch thingy...make the safety lever removable, and a matching plug to put in place if you do.
Owner gets to choose either style, to suit their desires. One gun model does either, not one with and without.
now, if I can figure this out, why can't the gun makers?
I've been in a few (fortunately very few) high stress situations with a revolver and with an auto pistol, and FOR ME, I never mistook one for the other. Meaning, I didn't fumble trying to take the safety off a revolver, or anything like that. Didn't do an "automatic swipe" without conscious thought, when I had a revolver. DID do it without thought when I had a semi auto..
I think maybe there is enough difference, in my mind, between the two that, something below conscious level "knows" which skill set to use for what I'm carrying.
I also think that when the guns are very similar overall, that "muscle memory" skillset for one can be exactly the wrong thing for another.
Example: Friend drops by says he saw a deer up the canyon, need to borrow rifle. All he has with him is shotgun and birdshot (is also bird season). For some reason, I get him a rifle and go with him, carrying his Browning shotgun. Not the (VERY SIMILAR) Winchester I use. Pheasant flushes. Track bird, punch safety off, pull trigger. Nothing. Blink. repeat. same. and again, as I watch him sail out of sight..Pushing off the safety at the front of the triggerguard (Winchester) only gets you a sore finger when you are holding a Browning with the safety at the back of the triggerguard!
anyone else like that out there, or am I just gifted that way??
