S&W Model 64 vs. 686

J

Julius Caesar

Inactive
I have a S&W Model 64 (38 Spc. +p) and a S&W Shield 9mm, both purchased new within the past year. I bought the 64 because I wanted a revolver and it was a good deal. The Shield was an impulse buy. I love the Model 64, have shot about 200 rounds through it in the year I have owned it.

I would like a .357 magnum, and have been eyeing a 686, but they are expensive. Around $700 and up from what I have seen. A few questions, I know that the .357 is more powerful than a 38 Spc., but are there any real world benefits to owning one over the 64? I mainly use the gun for range fun, although I keep it locked away in case of a home invader. I have read that the +p 38 Spc. is pretty powerful. I don't plan on hunting with the revolver, so don't know if I really need the extra punch of a 357.

If I tried to trade both the 64 and the Shield at a retail store like Cabelas, do you think I would get a good deal? I bought the Shield thinking I would conceal carry, but I am beginning to think if I were to CC, I would want a smaller gun like a 380 ACP.
 
Considering most people with 357’s shoot 38 specials out of them anyway, I would keep the model 64. 357 is a great caliber but full power ammo is hard on the gun and shooter compared to shooting 38 special.
As far as trading in guns to Cabela’s, or any gun / pawn shop, you will only get about half of what you paid, at best. You would be far better off selling guns yourself like on Armslist.
You already have a couple of nice guns. Why not hold on to them and save up for a 686.

Jim
 
What do you want the gun for? That might help you decide.

The K frame M64 is a bit smaller than the L frame M686. They have the same grip size afaik, the difference is in the rest of the frame.

.357 is better at putting holes through hard things. One of the reasons it was developed was to better shoot through car windows. Accuracy is about the same. Most people tend to think follow up shots with the slower .38sp are easier.
Modern bullets and powers make .38 performance better than in the past, but the same is true of .357.
If you're thinking of hunting check your state regulations.
 
I prefer a K frame over the L frame.
Personal preference only.

In my opinion keep the model 64, it's a good defense gun, and lighter.
Even in .38 Special it is still effective.
Practice, and if you want to go to a larger frame gun, find a range that rents and try one.
 
The 125 grain .357 magnum hollow point is FAR more powerful and effective than any .38 special load. It has a one-stop-shot rating of something like 98% and has a reputation for excellent stopping power and was called "The King of the Streets" as it were.

The .38 special was considered anemic by comparison and with the old RNL loads was dubbed "The Widow Maker" since cops were dying since the criminals they were shooting at did not go down fast enough, though things did improve somewhat with the FBI load (158 grain hollow point).

So "King of the Street" compared to "The Widow Maker", make your choice.
 
The 125 grain .357 magnum hollow point is FAR more powerful and effective than any .38 special load.
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Winchester X 125 grain .357 is 125 grains at 1450 (4" barrel) = 584 ft. lbs. ME.
Buffalobore .38 special +P LSWCHP is 158 grains at 1162 fps (4" barrel) = 474 ft. lbs. ME. (Like the old FBI LOAD which had a good stopping ratio)

Now shoot both out of a 3" barrel, and they get might get closer in ratio, since the BB load was chronoed at 1143 out of a 3" barrel equalling 458 ft. lbs. ME.

A more fair comparison for someone considering .38 +P vs. .357
And yes of course you can get hotter .357 but why for SD?
Risking over penatration.
It's more for 4 legged protection.
 
As indicated above the 64, 65, and 66 are all K frames which I personally prefer over the larger and heavier L frame pistols. I have all three, 64 4”, 65 3” and 66 (benefits greatly from having adjustable sights and a lug under barrel for a little more weight) primarily shoot .38 specials in them, even when I carried a 19 back in the dark ages I loaded it with .38 Super Vel ammunition. Keep the 64 and enjoy.
 
We can compare hottest to hottest but the .357 will still smoke out the .38.

I do agree the Buff Bore .38 load mentioned would be excellent, and the FBI load does have a good reputation.

But as good as the "King of the Street"?

No.
 
In some cases the .38 is much better than the "King of the Street". The magnum power is wasted if you miss. The .38 is vastly superior when it comes to controllability. So much so that I chose the .38 FBI load for my S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum for duty use many years ago.

I shoot a lot and I still compete and carry revolvers often in this age of plastic wonder nines. The .357 Magnum is more powerful and much harder to control without extensive practice. For the casual shooter the .38 is a much better choice.
 
I know that the .357 is more powerful than a 38 Spc., but are there any real world benefits to owning one over the 64? I mainly use the gun for range fun
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Even if you only fired 38s all the time having a revolver with adjustable sights like with the 686 is a feature I like for range use. With the wide variety of bullet weights and power levels available with the 38 or 357 being able to adjust the sights to hit to the point of aim is nice.

And don't rule out the K-Frame that was already mentioned - I have a couple of Smith 66s and they are a great choice as well.
 
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Thanks for the feedback. I figured that the Model 64 is probably fine for any purpose I would really need, and I really like the size and feel of the gun. It is not too bulky, but big enough to feel like like a full gun and not a small snub nose (not that those are bad).

One question though, a 686 is a L frame, right? I know that S&W makes some .357s in the K frame, like the Model 66. An employee at Cabelas told me that the S&W K frames in .357 tend to wear out more quickly than the L frames. Is that true?
 
An employee at Cabelas told me that the S&W K frames in .357 tend to wear out more quickly than the L frames. Is that true?
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Sorta.....An L frame will have a more robust frame than a K frame, a thicker web around the larger forcing cone, which will most likely last longer if you feed the revolver a steady diet of full power loads.

For most shooters that use 38 specials 90% of the time and an occasional cylinder of 357 mag for the fun of it it does not make much of a difference.
 
Keep the model 64 , excellent nightstand , plinking and informal target shooting gun.
You will shoot many more rounds of 38 special having fun. Mine is so accurate I mounted a red dot sight and use it for NRA Bullseye Match Competition.

If you want a 357 magnum get a new model 66, K-frame , 357 magnum with adjustable sights. Whatever you do hang onto the 64.
Gary
 
Just to expand on what Mike said...

When the K frame was built for .357 Magnum in the fifties it was at a time where most cops practiced and qualified with .38 Special and then loaded .357 Magnum for duty. The most common magnum duty round in the beginning was a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullet. It was very easy on the K frames of the day, routinely hit the same point of aim due to the similar bullet weights though it did pack a punch.

in the late sixties and into the seventies cops started to qualify with the magnum ammo and hotter high performance magnum ammo was often the preferred duty round. These 125 grain jacketed hollowpoints were real screamers and they also accelerated wear on the revolvers that fired them. As a result the K frame magnums started to have some maintenance issues. Smith and Wesson brought out the L frame to solve this problem. The slightly larger and stronger frame but with the smaller K frame grip became very popular as the goto cop revolver prior to the "Great Change" to autos in the 90's.

Today I still prefer my S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum revolvers to any L frame due to balance and familiarity. I also rarely carry them anymore and mostly shoot .38 Specials in them when I do. Occasional magnums are fine but I would stay away from a steady diet of them in the K frame revolvers.
 
I like the 38spl just fine. With the right ammo and a four inch barrel, it will do just fine.
Sometimes, I load up my Model 10 or my Model 15 with Remington 158gn swchp +P for home defense duty, and I feel well armed.
However, the revolver that gets picked most often is the GP100 3” loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 357mag 125gn . In fact...it’s on duty here tonight.
 
An employee at Cabelas told me that the S&W K frames in .357 tend to wear out more quickly than the L frames. Is that true?
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Yes and no, was is the active word there. The earlier K= frames did have a torching problem with hot .357 loads. Later S&W did a redesign that helped the problem. Hopefully someone with more expertise than I will fill in the details or correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Julius Caesar said:
If I tried to trade both the 64 and the Shield at a retail store like Cabelas, do you think I would get a good deal? I bought the Shield thinking I would conceal carry, but I am beginning to think if I were to CC, I would want a smaller gun like a 380 ACP.
Click to expand...

Sounds like to me, you need to trade the Shield for a .380 and just keep the 64. From what you tell us, the 64 is already doing everything you want and need from a revolver.
 
The earlier K= frames did have a torching problem with hot .357 loads.
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The majority of the forcing cone cracks appeared to happen during a time when the ultra-light, ultra-fast loads like the 110gr Super Vels were the big thing. While the flat spot on the bottom can be an issue, I've never seen or heard of cracks appearing with 158gr bullets. While I've seen 125gr ammunition blamed, most of those stories are from the 1980s. Modern factory ammunition is loaded to lower pressures.

I've personally run ~3500 rounds of 125gr Magnums or more through a couple of my older K-Frames, and I've never seen any erosion or cracks. That's not to say it can't happen, but you really have to push your loads or the round count quite a bit for it to be an issue.
 
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